Finding Your Way In The Cannabis Industry with Lorne. Silverstein

Finding Your Way In The Cannabis Industry with Lorne Silverstein

Lorne Silverstein is a business and legal consultant with a law degree from the University of Baltimore School of Law, 1991. Lorne is currently Chief Executive Officer of Silver Solar in Davis California and coaches boys Junior Varisty Lacrosse at Davis High School. After achieving tremendous success in his legal profession, arguing in front of the US Supreme Court at one point, Lorne decided to move to California to pursue a simpler life and connect to nature. Although, as they say, you can take the boy from the city, but you can’t take the city from the boy, Lorne has been an active and ambitious participant in the California legal cannabis industry and shared his insights on business, life and how to find your way in the cannabis industry with me on Head Change #7.



1hr 14min

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Transcripts of this episode provided thanks to a generous donation by Debra Lumpkins Studio, sustainable gyotaku artist in Maui, HI. Additional funding by Jeanne Nasarow of Bee Haven Hill Farms in Mendocino, CA.



Levi: Thanks for coming on I'd love to just hear about your connection to the plant because I know you do so much on the business side but I kind of want to hear more about like how did you go from an East Coast attorney to a West Coast consultant in the Cannabis industry? How did that happen?

Lorne: Well, there was that there were some stepping stones between those things. So in 2005 I moved out to the West Coast with my wife and kids at the time and settled in a beautiful, beautiful community and Davis called Village Homes. Sustainable, living one of the models in the country and really came to the West Coast to connect to the Earth. To really, to be outside to live a healthier lifestyle, really from the east coast and also reduce stress and trap. You know, sort of a reset over the recent in doing so came out, was thinking about practicing law actively and through bunch of different things that took place decided not to, but had also been working to form a company in the medical Diagnostics and Three, which is about in vitro diagnostic, assay testing, so testing for different, infectious disease. So, you know, you name it. Whether it be Lyme disease or Crohn's disease. So did that and in doing that, did a lot of regulatory work by 10K medical device work and you know, handled a lot of different parts of that business and started off as Chief Operating Officer, sales, director, and legal and Regulatory. I got a call from 2011-2012 even The Las Vegas, some people that I knew, and they were looking to get in on the licensure different licenses that we're opening up in Clark County, which is where Las Vegas is and blue down there. That's what this group of people from all walks of life. It's pretty pretty, pretty wild. It was Wild Wild West time and that was my first foray into the Cannabis industry. He and helping raise money and putting together, team putting together. Three different applications with 12 copies and, you know, just working nonstop to get that in. And so that was my first time that I entered the industry, not really knowing what I was doing. You don't work with some nice companies at the time, Ed appears, which was I think the first licensed edible Manufacturing Company in Colorado. You know? And so we worked a lot of hype X high-ranking government officials and so it really was my entry and showed the wedding. My appetite towards eventually, becoming the CEO of any integrate, calculates Energy Partners, which was a Consulting, a small consulting firm at the Davis. My connection to the plant. You know, look at somebody who used cannabis or marijuana for years. Recreationally I really as I moved into the industry and then even before, so new of the incredible man, this medicinal value of the plant especially towards sleep anti-anxiety and in getting into the industry. I have found myself as I have continued to work with groups whether bigger or smaller, I gravitate towards the small and medium-sized folks, especially the cultivators, which is, you know, My name. But, you know, I did why I love working with the green chakra, folks. And folks like the shelf and people who really, as I like to say, care about the green, not the green and Have taken their time, both pre prop 215, post 215. the Brave New World that we're living in now to fight the good fight, you know, to go from from hiding and growing in the Hills to the activism to now, the advocacy for something that really has been was marginalized by big business for so long and so that that, that struggle is something that really pulls me to, to towards the plant and just knowing the that were at the tip of the Iceberg, what we know release research-wise the benefits of this? This amazing amazing breath.

Levi: Yeah, I mean, we are at the tip of the iceberg and and I love them, your gravitating towards the. I think the cultivators are in California. As, you know, they're coming from your board, a lighting and a black market industry overnight, and some of the best. Alan some of the best genetics, some of the best Craftsman. Don't know how to scale their brand. They don't even know how to start a brand, they probably struggle with, you know, jumping through all the Hoops of Licensing. And I think it's so important to have people like you that, you know, have a legal background or a business background that are good communicators, that can, you know, take a deep breath, you know, and write the the letter, you know, communicate with the bureaucracy which can be just so mind-numbing. And especially when you're like a pot grower and then you you butt up against, you know, a regulatory power, like the state of California which anybody who lives in California, can take a big sigh with me about the taxes in this state and how hard it is to run a business in this state and you take some people that have literally been kind of off the map, really kind of a counterculture. You know, and people that I think like you came here, you know, you said you moved from the east coast to the West Coast to pursue a healthier lifestyle and a connection to Earth and I think that's what the Emerald Triangle represents is. A lot of people did that a lot of people left the corporate world their day jobs, and they were seeking a different life in Northern California through this plant. And now this plant is becoming, it's the fastest growing industry in America. And I think a lot of people are confused. They don't know what's going on. And we really need people to come into the space that has the ability to say, hey guys, this is what I see. I recognize the patterns going. Going on here, I can see the big picture. We got to start thinking about the big picture and you know the conversations we have. I think a lot of people like me with small brands or small Growers, you know, we were just trying to get to tomorrow, right? We're trying to pay the bills or trying to pay payroll. Return to make sure we get seeds in the ground product on the Shelf. We often can only think about the next day rather than the next year The Five-Year strategy. So in working with like what do you see right now is the biggest challenge facing the California Cannabis operator? What is the single? Like with all the people you work with? You see, a kind of a I mean like this is where people need help, this is where I know I can be helpful. If anybody listening you know is thinking about starting a cannabis business. You know or thinking about entering the space what is going to be the number one obstacle in your mind that you see people entering this space for people that are kind of in my position they're trying to get to the next step. Where do we need to be putting our energy? What advice can you have for people to help us make some sense out of what is really pretty chaotic? Exceeding right now with the regulations being in constant. Fluctuation Canadian money pouring in where do you see this going? Because Lauren, I think you have a probably a better picture of the big picture than anybody that I

Lorne: know. Well, I appreciate that and I don't know. I'm sure my view is one view. It's a huge question. You just asked

Levi: it is and we can break it down. Yeah. And I don't know where the bite-size pieces are. That

Lorne: question, right? All right. Look, I think In my work that I do the same thing as being an attorney, Andrew that I look at myself as a consultant who happens to be an attorney and you know that all those terms can be very loose in this space. But the reality is all I'm trying to bring to the table is an ability to facilitate Discussion and movement towards what? The small medium-sized grower, this small medium sized person in this industry, or company. In this industry it needs to be successful and be successful. Like you said, mean day-to-day, you know, making it to the next day. Put seeds in the ground. Where are they going? Who's going to handle distribution movement, towards vertical integration? Show putting together Sops, operating plans, you know, business plans on structuring companies. And I think one of the biggest obstacles that the small the smallest and medians have is that they don't have the infrastructure to support what they want to do, right? And to work in a level, Of. Multiple 10,000 square foot Farms outdoor where you only lecture autoflowering getting one turn. So you got to nail it and you got to hold that you're not getting hit with firing of. You're not getting hit with rain. You gotta hope that you know otherwise you're gone and the margins are so slim it with all of the fees as the tax evasion and everybody in, you know, and if you're not vertically It's the manufacturer taking a huge chunk of the distributor taking 20% that, you know, by the time you finish you're looking at these and great speakers sometimes 60 or 70, 70 percent of groves. So I think that the biggest challenge to the industry is, you know. Yes. Regulations are all over the place, they're going to continue to change. Hopefully, we'll see. Into you to do what we've done and setting up nonprofits to Advocate different coalition's associations, you know, continue to be active locally. Nationally Statewide really is, is that we have to dial in, in, in a way, to support each other, so that we can set up the proper infrastructure to sustain. To weather the storm so to speak. And he said, you know, they Canadian money, big business, they gag, you know, in anything, where there's money to be made, you're going to see this thing, you know, move towards Big Box.

Levi: Right?

Lorne: So how do you deal with that? And to me is to, you know, carve out a niche. Do what you do. Well stay in that lane continue to forge the relationships, you know it but it is, wouldn't we? Because because of the fact that we're hamstrung and still many ways through taxation through licensing, through oversight, through banking The challenges are huge, the obstacles are huge. And so it's that much more important to really understand the profit and loss and how do you work with OSHA workers comp and how, you know? If we don't do that and we do things the old way, we struggle along the way. And while I think there's a pining for that, A Simplicity that it takes the very diligent committee, dedicated person in this industry, just stick with what their guns, what they're doing with their what they believe in and not selling out. And it's just to me, it takes a lot of work. I think it takes a heck of a lot of commitment. It takes a certain level of stupidity,

Levi: honestly, right? Sure

Lorne: it is. No. And to anybody listening to that, I'm sure they're laughing and shaking their heads because There are times that you wonder after you send a huge amount of product to the manufacturer and then they come back with the numbers. And after they take out their fees and everything else, and you look at the numbers in your life. What, you know, because you're growing, you're growing what you need to be. You know, some cases, they are emeralds Emerald cup award winning cannabis and you're not seeing the return on what you're growing, right? But everybody else is getting Like I always say the cultivator, it's always the last person to make money here. Just like it is with coffee beans or just serve in any other trick me, but it's dealer on the street and the Troy, their Baltimore or wherever, that's making the money or or or in Humboldt selling bags of weed out of that it is strong. So

Levi: you know what, a different game I mean it wasn't that long ago when you know you grew a pound of weed and any you know you had your medical recommendation. And he went to a medical shop in California and you sold them your weed and they gave you cash and that was the transaction now, it's a completely different relationship. You know, you can't obviously can't do that, and there's multiple middlemen, they're taking Cuts. You know, the manufacturer like you said, the distributor, and there's a lot of people, I think, I think when legalization happened and I found this Camp, I think, most people, did we all expected this 10x, you know, we thought well, whatever our Revenue was from 2017, get ready, because it's going to be 10 x. So let's start scaling up. So people got their licenses, you know, they grew a ton of pot, they made a ton of Pride, they bought a ton of packaging, you know? They did all this stuff and then whether it was the regulations, the black market wherever you want to point the finger and I think it's multifaceted that 10x return didn't happen. In fact the industry really kind of stagnated, you know, I think if some brands have done well, but most of the small to mid-sized operators that I think you and I talked to are really struggling Right now, in fact, it was barely any left. I mean, there's been a mass extinction of Brands. If you go back to pre prop 64, you know, 90% of those brands are gone. And then every year, it seems like those Legacy brands are becoming increasingly rare. I mean, a brand, like mine or green shock that's been around, for, at least. Five years is becoming really, really rare and trying to try to herd cats, right? And get everybody on the same page, I think really is often times the hardest part because you know if you're if you come from a pedigree of you know I went to Anderson School of Business and I have an MBA and I'm talking to somebody who is a CFO you kind of you kind of understand how to mitigate the risks and how to set up a business structure that Is I guess that's tried and true, but when you're a small operator, you don't win, you don't know what those business plans, even look like to begin with. And this is where I really struggle. It's like, I know, all these great people. I'd love to work with them, but how do I go to them and say, Here's my joint venture proposal like I need somebody to help with that. That's why the consultant is so important, but there's a lot of bad consultants in any industry. And I think there's a lot of really predatory people that pick on the can. Industry? Whether you're an attorney, a bookkeeper, whoever you are, there's always the Cannabis rate, right? So like maybe your normal rates, 200 bucks an hour, oh, it's a cannabis brand. Now, it's 600 bucks an hour. And that is what makes it. And I know you don't do that and I know a lot of people are really fair and are actually trying to help the space and have their skin in the game, but there's a lot of people that are really just praying on the industry and especially investors. So a lot of us that are kind of coming from the backwoods and coming out into the daylight on to the full Son have kind of seen this first wave of green rushers and gotten really turned off. You know, it's like a lot of the super talkers and the people promising you the world and then when it comes time to actually show up for work, they're nowhere to be found, you know. And I've seen that over and over night and I'm not going to mention names, not here to bad-mouth people, but I think anybody that's been in the space knows exactly what I'm talking about. And so, finding the right Consultants finding the right attorneys. You know, when you're a small brand, a bootstrap brand one wrong, Relationship can do you and sometimes I love what you said about the stupidity, and I think that's true for any business business is hard being an entrepreneur is a Fool's errand. You know, it is a huge gamble. We do it for the passion. Anybody that's still around in this space is doing it because they're passionate about the plant and they really believe in it. And but from a business point of view, it might be kind of stupid right now. I think long term, it's not and I think the brands that can make it out of California will be the Next Kellogg's of the world. I mean I think there's this massive potential coming out of California but the regulations are going to continue to kind of hamper that and what are your thoughts on the black market? You know, do you think the black market is a real threat? Or is there a zero way to bring these people into the fold? How do you, what was your perspective on? How do we deal with the black market in California? Is the black market huge right now?

Lorne: or listen. I think that, of course, Like marking this year to Me, Andy. Here's the years of the bribe, as we were working early with the state of California, local, local jurisdictions, local counties, you know whether it's Sacramento. YOLO humble, Trinity's doesn't matter. We were all we were combating these groups. And these companies are coming in to figure out how to tax the product. What's the model and seeing the percentage of gross is it per square foot above the canopy as we were doing this. This from County to County was different and you saw a mass Exodus is from Monterey County one point time based on taxation Harmony, the oversight that comes from BCC for cdfa. These letters that come sometimes, email that comes the day before they're coming to your property, to tell you where you're going to be there. It's like the most ominous looking thing ever. So what I'm getting at mother, you know, this is when we overburden and Industry and this industry has been, there's not being treated because of it, lack of federal legality. It, you know, the hardest camping. Crop, it doesn't enjoy the same protections as corn or soybeans in that being the case. We set up somewhat of an adversarial system. We've made it hard overtaxed, we over permitted it. A lot of things in the regulatory side ensure that they cannabis where everybody will be following the rules but in making it so well-nourished Through Time, attention detail, money, exhalation, It fuels the black market. And it makes it. So the legal grower once participates in the black market and makes it so that the person who has been doing this forever says screw it. I don't know, I wanted you that way. I'll take the risk. The fact is that the black market also knows that the amount of governmental oversight, lease, oversight for them is less now than it's ever been, right? Because because the job now is to monitor, all the people that are doing Legally rather than paying that are paying for all those Services, right? So it's an, it's interesting. I once had a conundrum but it's just an interesting way. It's all been set up and so my purposes, the black market. I don't know that the black market ever goes away. Hmm. in fact, I like to call the gray Market but I don't think it ever goes away, but I think the way to deal with it is to make the system, a better system for the legal and enforcement shouldn't be lording over the legal so much. It should be lording over the illegal. And that way the tax base that the state, the local the local governments are looking for will be preserved. But if you continue to squeeze, like we talked about the small medium sized out. Continue to make the tax rate, so ownerís it punishes the legal and it makes the black market more and more attractive all the time. You know, listen We're All Creatures of habit. We all grew up in that system. So everybody has their buddy that grows and the places they could. Those people are still around, they didn't go anywhere. And, you know, I don't know that you can very much incentivize them to show open the legal Market, but you can certainly incentivize the legal Market better by making these less owners in every single way because it made it made to be so difficult.

Levi: Yeah. And a lot of people, you know, predicted this, you know, and you know, I've always been in favor of regulations, mainly because a weed needs to be legal period, you know, and just the criminal justice component. Was one of the main reasons, you know why I went along with legalization of the drug policy Alliance endorse prop. 64 we all knew it was an imperfect piece of legislation, but it was, at least something to at least write that fundamental wrong. That this plant should not be legal in the state of California. Ironing out all the specifics is really the challenge. And, you know, I've been incredibly disappointed with the BCC Lori Ajax as a joke. I mean, I'll say this stuff, you know, I've written novels To the bureau, to try to get them to understand the perspective of the small producer, and I sometimes get an empathetic ear, I get an empathetic ear with the Department of Public Health, they really seem to get it more so than the BCC but the BCC was kind of set up. You know, really in my eyes, the BCC is a bunch of cops. You know Lori Ajax comes from, you know criminal justice, she's a cop and that's how I feel like we are treated in the legal industry as is, if you're in the legal industry, you're treated like a criminal. Like that's how it feels and you're held to this crazy standard of like yeah you're right the The Regulators are going after people because they're their font size on the government warning was you know five instead of six point and then you have people you know, doing huge butane Labs you know, out in the desert blowing stuff up and that barely gets any attention, but I think the fundamental flaw with props to 64. Was I remember going up, Sacramento, you know, hearing Frank, you're probably at some of these Engine died here from all the politicians, and it seemed like they were all, like, oh, once once we have it, regulated people will flood to the regulated space because of testing and because of pesticides. And I remember thinking, well that, yeah, I can see how that might make sense to somebody who's never smoked weed and isn't a part of the space, but there was never a public outcry about pesticides in cannabis. I never whatever. You know 20 years I've been growing weed and involved in the space. I've never ever heard of anyone. Over getting hurt from smoking and pesticide Laden weed. I'm sure there's cases out there. I'm not saying there isn't but they're incredibly rare. There was not a Public Health crisis around pesticides. In cannabis, what there was was a governmental taxation crisis or they hated to see people making money on taxed and I think they just thought, well, as soon as we Legalize It people will flood to the compliance space because they don't want to do something illegal wrong and then also because they're going to want safe lab tested flower. Well also wrong. Because people actually do kind of trust their local grower down the street, you know, people kind of know that, hey, this guy's really into weed. He's smoking the weed that he's selling me, you know, he's like a super Stoner, he's not spraying it with pesticides and maybe he has, but you know, how harmful are they really? I mean that's a whole nother conversation about what? Chemicals get classified as organic and get listed under, you know, Omri versus ones. That, you know, that's a that's a huge Conversation Piece but like how dangerous are these? All substances and where's the public outcry or the public health concern around it? I didn't, I don't think it was really there. So the way I see the legal space competing is we have to bring, you know, in defense of the black market, what is it? 80 percent of California is you know, you cannot start a cannabis business and 80% or so maybe it's a little less now of municipalities in California. So most people that want to enter the regulates base camp because there's no licensing opportunity and their city or in their County. He wanted to start a counter State, have to go to, you know, Coachella or somewhere where they do have a licensing structure.

Lorne: Correct, sure. And, and they're also shut out from the process due to a lack of funds or like knowledge or like education. Right?

Levi: Exactly. And there's this term, you know, I've heard it before but it's kind of stuck in my mind recently, you know, access to institutional knowledge and institutional Capital. You know, that's where people are versed in business. And who are, you know, who went to, you know Princeton and Yale and have these connections can hyperscale Brands because they know where they can get funding quickly and easily. They know the right people to bring in, you know, to have when they're bored. I really want to see craft California, Cannabis succeed. It's like what I'm going to dedicate every ounce of energy that I have left in me to doing is to try to see the craft California, Cannabis industry. Because I think it has to for the quality of the products. I mean, I don't just want these huge mega corporations, you know. I just thought the code got bought out recently about a big Canadian brand. You know, people are buying up. These turnkey-ready companies that you know are vertical and we're just going to get Bland cannabis like a smoker. I don't want to see that happen because I don't want to go to the pot store and there's only five choices, you know it. I don't want it to turn into that. I think it would be such A disservice and we need that, you know, craft passion for the plant. That's going to produce these unique terpene profiles because that's where the medicinal potential. Truly, we need as much diversity in the space. I was love the farmers market model, you know, we should just have big cannabis farmers markets all over the state where the Growers can show up with their mason jars, full of Bud, and sell it to people, drink, just like it should be. In other words, I think cannabis should be treated as a food product, you know, I couldn't think of Coffee. I know you're a big coffee. Drinker. Coffee is just as psychoactives, cannabis. I mean, I'm not a doctor, but I know that coffee gives me just as much of a psychoactive jolt, as I get from smoking weed. I don't really think there's much coffee, probably even more harmful than cannabis. I mean, cannabis is just one of the least toxic least harmful plants on the planet, but because it gives you that head change, you know, it makes you kind of start to Dream a Little Bit, You Know, music sounds a little richer, the color. Is there a little brighter? For some reason, you know, Western capitalism is very threatened by this plant, you know? And and why that is who the fuck knows. But we seem to be incredibly threatened. If you have a theory on that, I'd love to

Lorne: hear it. Sure. I have a theory on it. That's some Sinker, I have lots of things that are expensive for us. Look and you know, Cannabis 50s. We got slammed by the movie Reefer Madness, right? Which? Oh, you know, you're going to go crazy if you smoke weed, right? If the government tested this, you can see the old studies, they also tested all kinds of psychedelics name, the issue then was that hey, where'd that movie come from came from tobacco? Came from alcohol and came from Timber, came from textiles, it came from pharmaceutical companies. They're threatened from they're threatened by it, in the captain from the capitalist side, right? The country, the world has been threatened by anything, whether the Cannabis or psilocybin LSD or breathe, they're threatened by the awareness. The Awakening of people, the doll, the company, all the capitalist in all those different areas that I mentioned, they're threatened by that. Same Awakening, because Italy started to move away from the use of opioids by using cannabis. Instead I don't know. You know, I don't know about volume Valium bad Acts or any any paint, oxycodone oxycontin, What happens and what happens as we start to expand ourselves start to clear our minds that we start to see Things differently. And we don't attach to the same things that were not affected by marketing and all the sort of cultural paradigms and the Throne of those who were supposed to be, when we're supposed to be that. And, you know, and as soon as the Big business government believes that they were threatened by those things. They're going to do everything they can to hold it down to Tamp it down. Either to totally knock it out, which they did or to open it up, but only allowed to a certain level. Let's we can hold this down right now, which is why we haven't seen the federal. You know we're not illegal federally right now and So you sort of have an industry that's been let out. But not really right, right? And so look, the world is afraid of Awakening in my belief that lots of things show up for us that to sort of, Tamp, that down covid-19 those things in my mind and I'm not saying it was released by someone, but Cody came in a time where I was feeling the world starting to wake you, right? Well, we went through a political time frame where that also happened that we saw. We saw some things happening. And people go, whoa, no. And then we saw other people come out. The woodwork first time storm, the capital, like what? And what you started to see from that, there's all these movements, whether it's black lives matter or other things, this Awakening is starting to happen and if I think throughout history, our country or throughout history, you see these different events that take place. Whereby the Society government and big business believes. It's threatened and This industry threatens to have in so many ways. If it threatens, the medical insurance industry, it threatens, it threatens Pharmaceuticals tobacco, you name it.

Levi: And I think what cannabis does is it actually brings people together? Conservatives love, cannabis soda, liberals. It's literally like probably the one thing Americans can agree on Americans. Overwhelmingly believe in medical marijuana. Now even a majority of Republicans Want fully legalized cannabis. Now, over fifty one percent. I believe cannabis is something that actually can unite us and that is a huge threat to the media. That makes a ton of money off of dividing us. And the media knows you know me. I'm no big Trump supporter but I do agree with an occasional thing that came out of his mouth and I do think the media is a big problem in this country. We know five companies really control all the media. They pretty much do the I call it the division. Re right, you know you got your Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and you're Alex Jones and kind of these outlets and then you got your liberal equivalents and MSNBC and Young Turks and as long as they can, keep everybody in their lane and then they can Target Market to those people and play up their fears and keep everyone really afraid. Very small, afraid of your neighbor, afraid that someone else might have a different opinion than you when did people become. So afraid of having a debate about something, you know

Lorne: what did they do? Because they cultivate their social media feed to play the clip to play the algorithm loop back to them. Right? And so, so to me, I don't believe that the, there's nothing that I've ever heard from the orange, man, that resonates with

Levi: you and I totally tried to find. I try to find optimism and everything.

Lorne: Well, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. But, you know, the media certainly is a problem with the media to me worse for most of us, I believe it's Very transparent. I know what I'm getting when I turn the TV on the fox or MSNBC or I get it. So I cultivate my news from different sources and I'm going to go to BBC America. I'm going to go to Al Jazeera, you know. I'm going to go to places that I think and be because that's my bet. That's where I go. But the reality of the situation is that it's up to us to educate ourselves. We have to get out of that Loop. But you know, when you hit me up today on the LinkedIn, You know, and you'll notice where my profile goes. I don't share a tunnel there. I'm not on any other social

Levi: media. Yeah, I noticed that I've

Lorne: never been. I've never been on Facebook. I've never been on Instagram. Never had Twitter never had Snapchat. I don't for me. It's not where I want to spend my time. Sure. And what I do understand, I saw a great movie. I forget what it was called, but it's just feeding you back your own shit? Yeah, so great. So when you say, hey whatever happened to discourse, whatever happened to dialogue, whether for happiness, Civics where we can sit down at the table. And even though we have two diametrically opinions, sit down somehow, get to a place to agree or be equally unhappy when we walk away from it, right? It's right. Hey, what do we need to do here? And that is missing the right media. Social media, all these things. What it does is it polarizes us? Bulls us to one side or the other, so we no longer are Centrist and every politician does this, or at least most, they either talk their game, and they give an office, and then they come back to the middle since we're from. That's where popular opinion isn't public, opinion is right. But the problem is that we have turned everybody. Everybody's now is Iowa. You either believe in wearing a mask or you don't. Right? You're either, you know, when is it that flying the American flag? Now, it became a conservative thing. But like, one, like you now, see somebody wearing a red, white blue mask, you probably assume they're conservative, right? I don't understand any of that. And until we stop separating ourselves as human beings from one another. But you said, cannabis bill brings people together. Till we stop separating ourselves. And we start to believe that we are all one that we are part of this universe and it's part of us. That's where we struggle. We're going to continue to struggle

Levi: and you know, you also said you moved to California for a connection to the Earth and I think that's also what cannabis does. Not only does it reconnect us I think to ourselves to each other. But most importantly, probably back to the Earth. And I think, you know, we've co-evolved with cannabis for I think forever. I mean, I think it is the minute whenever Homo sapiens, you know, kind of became what we are. Invented fire, we started socializing we've had cannabis for sure. Probably even before fire. You know, we're probably eating. It's a beautiful plant that smells good. I'm sure we were very intrigued by it back in caveman days but I think it's just been an ally to humanity and Allied to storytelling, you know, Terence McKenna. Then, he has this great talk. You gave it a salon years ago and Big Sur about his theory that magic mushrooms actually led to the expansion. So really human consciousness because the African plains when they were kind of going from rainforest, what they are now with your kind of open Plains, you had the emergence of psilocybin mushrooms. And humans were eating. If the thing about mushrooms, I'm sure you imagine you've done some mushrooms but people that haven't if you take a small amount of mushrooms and microdose, you don't get that. Shamanistic. Divine like, experience what you do get is enhanced Edge detection. So if you're out, if you're a human on a field and you're trying to see Predators having that subtle Edge detection, it could be a major advantage to staying alive on the African plain. So, Terence McKenna's. Terry was humans, were eating a little bit of mushroom for basically, as a performance, enhancing food source to help them stay alive, and see Predators. But then, of course, as we started socializing, we started eating it. We started to figure out like, hey, if I add a few more of these, actually, the wheels. Start turning and suddenly human consciousness and storytelling and awareness of body and self and spirit. Basically kind of took root because of mushrooms onions. A fascinating Theory. I don't know if I'll ever be able to prove it right or wrong but I think it's just like mushrooms. I think cannabis is probably played a huge part of that because you know like you know what's green shock strain that they know about purple candy cane right? The real name for that is Storyteller, right? And it's true when you smoke that flower You start to use the Hawaiian term, you start talking story, you know, people that are are closed in and I love that word expansive because that's what cannabis is for me. Now, I can feel so locked in, and I smoke a little bit of flour and suddenly my whole world suddenly, like nature starts calling to me. Suddenly, I want to write a song. I want to participate. We can have two people on camera if you want.

Lorne: Okay. Yeah,

Levi: sure. We're talking about expansiveness so it'd be totally appropriate but I think there's just something that the human species needs from Cannabis. You know. It's vital to our existence on this planet. Here's my theory, it is a theory for floating and some crazy stuff. I think humans came from the Andromeda system and the serious system and brought cannabis with us on our spaceship a long time ago, is one of the Sacred plants. You know how they're doing tissue. Your samples. Now she'll have a sterile test tube and actually keep genetics alive. You could cryofreeze those and take them on a space shuttle and transport tons of seed stock and clone stock extra, you know, intergalactically. So that's one of my far-out theories. What I think about when I'm super high is that I think this plant has been with us, even for longer than human history, it's just too perfect for the human system. We have our endocannabinoid system. We produced these natural endocannabinoids. The cannabis plant interacts with that system so perfectly. It just seems like it's God's

Lorne: gift. You know, take your honor. Is that why you said in your other podcast that you believe it's an alien? Yeah, we employ. Those kind of like a play

Levi: on words and yeah a little bit of Click bait but I really do want like I would love to my dream. On my podcast is to find somebody that agrees with me. That's why I'm going to keep saying this Theory until I finally get an email from somebody that's like I have evidence. This is true and I'll invite him on.

Lorne: That's good that this will, this will be you'll definitely be able to do podcasts 8 because I have no evidence for you, but

Levi: I'm still going to keep searching for my real dream. Lauren is to be the Anthony Bourdain of weed. I want to travel around the world in smoke weed with people. I want to go to Pakistan. You know. I want to, I want to go to like the kind of Mecca's of cannabis. I want to go to Cambodia and Vietnam and explore all those Southeast Asian varieties that are genetics that are locked up in the mountains of Afghanistan. You know, unfortunately, that area is so war-torn. It'd be really hard to do it now. But you have places on Earth that are probably the birthplace of cannabis, I mean, as far as we know, we think that cannabis and someone can correct me if I'm wrong. But from what I know, we believe cannabis came from the Hindu Kush mountain region that goes to Afghanistan. Pakistan and India. That's its original home and it might have had another home in Latin America or southeast Asia. We're not sure, but we kind of think through the genetic genome testing that we're doing on the plant that the oldest species. Cannabis are kind of those old Afghan, you know, Hindu Kush which would explain why OG Kush and the strands are so potent. You can clone them over and over and over because they've been on the planet for 10 million, 20 million years like they know who they are. You know, they're very their genetic Integrity is very strong but that's my dream is to build travel on the world and go to these places and really, you know, see how cannabis is used and appreciated by different cultures, you know? And The Far East is a much more hashish based culture of the West is a much more alcohol culture and I'm trying to get away from alcohol, you know, my own and my dad was an alcoholic, my I've alcoholism in my family and I would much rather be smoking cannabis. Then drinking it, it's night and day. Like, if I drink the night before, like, if I drank last night, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be here right now. I'd be asleep, you know, just knocks me out, cannabis, I can smoke all day long and I feel generally pretty good. It awake. This is my body. You know, I like to smoke weed and go for a run. I love High running High, yoga High Surf and pretty much cannabis like amplifies anything that you're doing meditation. It just depends on that experience. I don't know many other substances that really do that. I mean, I think the psychedelics and the right microdose have some of those parallels, but I don't know many substances that you can use when you're sick. When you're happy, when you're sad and it always seems to take you to a better place than where you started, and sometimes sometimes like with an edible. It might take you to a little bit of a scary place. Those are usually learning and healing opportunities. I want to pick your brain a little bit because I know you have this wealth of knowledge about the law and business, and if people have questions to, I'm, you know, if anybody has questions for Lauren, he's a, he's a, he's really knows his shit. And if anybody is struggling with, getting your brand started, email me and I'll put you in touch, But something I know you have this other side to you and maybe you don't want to talk about it too much, but I know that cannabis and kind of this lifestyle has been a big part of healing for you and it has for me too and I think we all come to cannabis for kind of that self-healing and that expansiveness and connection to what is true and what is real. And I think that's what's going on. I think that's a big issue with the world right now. If we all have these phones and we all have this digital interface to the world. And we are all getting sick from it. Literally, I think we're all undergone a massive Mental Health crisis, simultaneously. All the same time, I don't think we've ever had an addiction like this, that we're all suffering from varying degrees simultaneously. I mean, I think it's a major issue and I think cannabis is going to be one of the tools in our medicine box that we're going to use to save us from ourselves to get us out of this dish.

Lorne: All

Levi: Vortex where the powers that be are going to try to simplify because if they can get us all just into this digital Lane, then they can market and sell to us anything they want. And they can control our every whim. They don't need to plan a microchip and US, they've already done it with the phone like they've already won. The more people can get off of this and go out into the Earth. To get your hands in the soil, to eat the plants right off of the tree to communicate with your fellow human about Real shit, you know? It's like I just want to talk to people about real shit that's going on. Like I want to hear how people are really doing, not what their social media profile looks like. And I love that you don't have a social media profile. One of my friends, the smartest guy. I know he's a lawyer, you know, aced his SATs. Never started the social media profile ever. Still doesn't have one. He's probably one of those content people. I know I don't miss it. No Facebook, no Instagram, no Twitter spend zero energy and all that. Stuff and is happier because of it. And I just think, I think, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to like be a doomsday are, you know, I'm pretty positive but I think this is a major problem that we're all going to have to deal with collectively and bring everybody back down to earth, you know, and it's why we need the older folks. I know you work a lot with older with seniors, I was reading your LinkedIn and I think there's a lot of wisdom and the older crowd and I mean like the people that I've fought World War Two like you know, the old school. Oh geez, of the world. We need them right now to install some wisdom, on to the younger generation. That is totally wrapped up in this and they're in the young people are cool, you know, I'm not saying they're not, you know, I'm 40 I'm kind of like this elder Millennial guy that like I still remember life before the internet and life was good before the internet. You know like now it seems impossible to exist without GPS and texting but it wasn't that bad like you know like I went outside and played with my Friends, I didn't, you know, I played Nintendo and stuff but I spent a great deal of my childhood Outdoors, you know? And I grew up in Oregon. So maybe it was a little easier. I'm just worried about the future with these devices and I think we're going to see a mass Exodus from the digital space and I think we're going to see more and more people like you that left you know a way of life to pursue something with a deeper connection to self to Spirit to Earth and I think cannabis will be a huge vehicle. All to help people break the spell that they're under from Mark Zuckerberg, ER, and his data crunching algorithms, to figure out what your next breath is going to be, you know, I don't think people want that. I think that's where a lot of this tension is coming from. Its people know, they're being manipulated on a massive scale. They want to escape, they don't know how to do it. So they're they're, you know, they're going down rabbit. Holes on the internet, looking for some breadth of Truth, looking for somebody to say, Hey, I see you. I hear you. I know you're struggling and we're going to get out of this together and that's what I just want my voice to be a part of that movement to say, hey let's talk about this stuff. Let's figure out a way to build a society that can work for everybody. And I really believe, cannabis is the way to do that. I think the more we can get people into this industry, you don't have to smoke weed to be able to enjoy it. Grow it, use a topic. There's a lot of ways. To use it that don't get you high but support the liberation of this point because just the industrial and I want to talk to you about Industrial Hemp a little bit and just kind of get your thoughts on that because I think that the industrial hemp component of cannabis is just as huge as the medicinal psychoactive part. I don't know a lot about it. I brought a few people on the show that know more than I do, but I think Industrial Hemp is going to be our solution to fossil fuels to building materials. It's the fastest growing plant on land. Do you work with any hemp companies or you invested it all on that side or you pretty much strictly on the

Lorne: THC? Yeah I'm

Levi: not. Do you think there's what I sound crazy thinking? That Industrial Hemp is just as big. Do you see that side of it? At least just in your view being vitally important to reshaping our economy in the way that, you know, we move forward as a country. I mean, do you think hemp will Be as big as people are dying? Know you hear all the chatter, I'm just curious. I

Lorne: mean, I mean, look at, look, I would hope so. I would hope we're smart. The answer is, yes. Yeah, you know, then not to be not being not be a negative Nelly. But being smart is not enough, you know? And there has to be a shift away from things that we were used to. That was said, ours is the way. Bamboo Bamboo goes the same way, right? Because bamboo Bamboo hemp, you know, you cut down the field and it grows right back door. It doesn't take 20 years to grow back the same trees to make paper pulp, right? You can make it out of his clothing. Boring building materials. I mean, you know, as you know, you know, you know, plenty about it, there's so many applications. The question is, is dust. Do the different lobbies? Continue to smash it down. Textile industry to the member industry. I'm sure we can name a ton of other Industries. It's no different than the same fight that cannabis is because it is the same fight. And, and unfortunately, we still carry around. As you said, I think the word a point right now is that maybe 70% of all counties in California are still dry, counties, or canvas, you know, what are we doing? You know, can we? Properly regulated industry and continue to prop it up. So that it doesn't get, you know, doesn't get hammered through taxation and permitting and everything else and know him regularly and regulations. Are we interested in doing that? And I think the people are, you are? I am, we want those options. We want those things in front of us, we want to be able to take advantage of this plan. The question is whether we will be allowed to will, will this take place and I imagine it depends on what you could do. You believe actually happens in my belief. Is that Big business and government are two intertwined. Yep. And because of that, we can't make these decisions. Without the governmental regulation and, you know, being impacted dramatically because there's too much money thrown at it. The old way of doing it always wins like we talked about. There's a new beginning that Awakening is about oh what this plane can do these things and it costs a tenth of the amount of money and fine, it's sustainable. And yet. How long has it taken us just to get cannabis legal phrases? They are at the Stateside Stateside, and still still? It's a shit show?

Levi: Yeah, it can seem a little depressing when you think about that. It's like I think about a lot of time and say I can't believe we're 2021 like in cannabis is still illegal. Like that's cool. We've known for a long time that it's non-toxic. No one's ever. Overdosed on it virtually. There's really no good reason for it to still be. Other than money. You know like Snoop Dogg says it doesn't make sense, follow the money and there's obviously some people that benefit from the status quo but I you know, I think that I think that the there's so much great entrepreneurship happening in the space even though the state has squashed a lot of it down. I think we're pretty resilient people and the people that you work with, I think art are dumb enough To, you know, are smart enough to be dumb enough to just know that if they continue to pursue their craft and cancel out all the noise and to stay true to their vision and stay in their Lane, that eventually, the opportunity will come The DaVinci. And I believe that the consumer ultimately has the power, you know, to decide what products they want to buy, where they want to spend their money. And I think that the products offered by the small grower, Superior. So if we can just get them out in front of people at a competitive price point packaged in a way that's attractive, you know, that will sit on the Shelf, nicely, they got a chance but that's not enough as, you know, because a lot of Brands can do that, they can put some really great flower in a jar. Put it in a cute box, but that's only a quarter of the battle, you know, maybe even less than that, then the distribution, the cell through plan, the marketing, the supply chain relationships, the communication. That's where people are getting hung up. I know a lot of people looking to get incredible flour into a jar in a cute box but that's as far as they can get. What's your advice to those people? Where do they get from them? They have a great product. Well, how do they get to the next step?

Lorne: You know, it comes through it comes through a network of really good Partnerships, you know? Look, if you're fortunate enough to be financially sound and you can have multiple licenses. If you can have a distribution, License and a cultivation license and a retailed license. And I mean, you know manufacturing, it's if you can be vertically integrated, obviously, that is that's the key. But that takes lots of effort. It takes lots of time, takes lots of money, it takes lots of day-to-day operations, and so that's very difficult for your small. So, you're small and mediums need to plug into good resources, book. Consultants. One of them obviously interns. He's one of them, a good CPA, In the spaces is one but you know you need to have you need to have a network of people around you whether it's from the insurance industry or security or you know soil whatever it is you've got to have that down. You've got to continue to look at that model as to how to most efficiently partner with folks. And you know what I see from the small and medium-sized is that you know this industry more. So but also like a mystery Eight out of ten nine, out of ten of these relationships. Don't work out it. Somebody will tell you I am going to do this for you. And I'm going to do this and Go. Six months down the line and you know, like you said, supertalker and those can be people within the industry. And so really it's about you know, small meeting needs to find somebody who Says hey we're just tribute are we want to work with you here here the let's work on the parameters and what the deal looks like sticks to it continues to send you the monthly sales figures. You know it works with your hand in hand weekly meetings whatever it is and continue to Connect inside the community and for yourself to be successful. And that's what it's going to take. It's going to take going to the shows. It's going to take winning the awards, it's going to take a website, keeping it up to date and it's going to have it and it's going to have to take a team of people that are dedicated to this. Without taking the reality is without getting paid lots of time, right, right? Yeah. Unless that's tough as a consultant. It's no different for me at times too because I want to work with people and I can't, you know, it can't be it's not the regular legal building that you have with a client. There's things that you do and ways you show up. That way you really recognize that the people around you are hardworking. They are without deserving. They are out there struggling, you allow yourself to struggle with them a little bit. I've always been okay with that because my connection is too, to the people. And that's really where we have to continue to do, is, we have to continue to forge those relationships with people that care that just aren't about the bottom line, all the time that are really looking to do something. Listen, I think one thing to you, you're saying about big businesses. You know, this reminds me of the beer industry and that we got to a point where you know the monsters to korres have tires are bushes and everybody knew Miller and Bud Light. Then all of a sudden the craft beer industry sprung up right now. Now you can go to your local pub, your local Brewery, and not only have a beer there, they'll do it for you or they put it on a regular basis in a crowler or Growler and to me. That's where this industry goes, especially for the small mediums,

Levi: Right. And the my understanding and a lot of people say, hey if you want to know where cannabis is headed, look at the beer industry, I hear that all the time. And so I have a little bit and my interpret, you know, if you Wikipedia craft beer, basically will say in California Sierra Nevada. Chico really is kind of like the one that really scaled from the garage to National Distribution global distribution. Now, But it was legislation in the 70s that allowed the crafts movement to happen. It wasn't like people just all of a sudden one day like cash to start a Craft brewery. It was it was legislation that allowed the craft industry to thrive. So a lot of people are saying watch out guys, because this is what they did in alcohol, they over-regulated it. So only you know, five companies can survive then and than once they know they've really got, you know, got it down, we're big business and big government have colluded. Added to that means. Then they open it up a little bit and they say, okay now we can allow the craft beer industry. Now for my understanding craft beer represents like less than 5% of beer sales. So as big as craft and don't know if that's true. So we can fact check me, but I think that's pretty close. It might seem like in California when you go to, you know, you know, I go to like the health food stores around here and it's mostly craft beer that craft beer is like this huge thing and it is a big business 5%. Call beer sells a lot, but it's still tiny compared to Anheuser-Busch in Coors and like that. That's okay, if that's the reality, right? Like we're going to have Walmart, we're going to have Budweiser, we're going to have those Brands and cannabis but how big of a slice of the pie is left for the people that actually built the industry. You know, for the small farmers that literally risk going to jail for life, you know, think about the sacrifice that people made to get to where we're at right now. I don't want those people to be forgotten.

Lorne: For Wow listen nor do that. You know, and what they see happening is you know, or the folks that have passed their rolling over with this stuff, you know, the rolling over in the grave because you're right. I mean you know, it could go the way of the craft brewing industry. But that really knows, you know we're still hamstrings. So many ways here we are in California, 70 percent dry guns. This is the state that basically grows the best cannabis and has forever. So it really is going to take an opening up and trusting and that's one of my big issues is that as these regulations have been formed as these laws have been passed as the taxation levels have been set. Why haven't we done as well? A job as we can of listening to the people industry, but their expertise in something that people government don't know. And

Levi: is the, you know because that

Lorne: are that are that are coming from, you know, prosecutor prosecutor group process, prosecutorial backgrounds or coming from alcohol, or it coming from wherever be shifted from a different apartment to then review. So ours to him. And so for me, that's, that's one of the big disconnects and there has to be a trust you, but, but, but see, we're basing the system on something that's always been Shady, you know? So it's hard for people to have that. It's not, it's not what we have, most of the time, you know, there's dead level trust that doesn't happen. And so if we can work together, we can figure this stuff out, so that the industry survives, otherwise, it will it will go the way of Marlboro Lights muldaur Reds, you know, you know, that's up stuff and It's not, you know, my hope, you know when I think this is where Canada got jacked for a while. You know in sort of this slow progress and the investment in row space was unbelievable and it's huge companies came out of the gate roaring to just go and come right back down to earth and You know,

Levi: and yeah, no, not exactly. Talking. Everyone was like a canopy, right? It was all about, you know, we have so much canopy and it's like, cool, what are you gonna do with all that flower, you know, who's going to buy it, you know, just because you're growing at and I think that speaks to Brandon really and in genetics and the importance of that, you know, in American capitalism, people, trust Brandon, More than they trust government, that's for sure. You know, we kind of in America, we kind of hold Brands up to almost this, like, Divine like power. It's like Coca-Cola Nike, you know, like these entities are almost Beyond human if that makes sense. And I think it's because we feel like brands are held accountable to the public, right? I mean, we all feel like we participate in what brands make it as shareholders or just as consumers, you know, if you go out and you buy a product you know essentially giving them your endorsement and I think people kind of like that. So I think I think the best way to shift people's minds is through good, branding and good, genetics and kind of the last kind of thing. I want to leave you with our leave the people listening with is, you know, we've talked a lot about how to get to the next step and it's, and I agree what you're saying really is, You need to network, you need to build your network. So probably the best networking tool I've had in my life. Has been the emerald cup, that's how it's why you and I are talking because, you know, I'm at Green, shocked at the emerald cup. You know, I've done well at their world cup over the years, I've made a lot of relationships. Are there any other organizations that you can rattle off for people? You know, is there an alliance? If they're, if they want to get deeper into the industry? Should they In a group, you know, can you point people in the right direction?

Lorne: Fuck, you know, depending on where you are, you know, you've got alliances in Mendocino. You know, you've got ccia California, got a CIA nationally at the Drug Policy Alliance, right? You got the drug policy Alliance, you have, you know, you know, look, when we bring it in, Yolo County. We started the other County cannabis Coalition ICC and we wrote white papers and we really influenced, but I think that, you know, look covid has taken a lot of that way, right? And you're your cannabis people at the small medium level, they're not your email people and website people, they're not your social media. People here are in rare cases. Like what the Mendo Dope guys? Yeah, they have that but overall this is sort of want to be a stutter step in that connection and I think people need to continue to get back out. You know look at them a couple is done you know online to share it you know. So we're not back at that you know festivals are back. I think as we start to get back to some of these things, But to get back to the community, that's where it all, which were no begins and then. So right now, you have to make a bigger effort, a larger effort to do that. And most of that's going to happen online. It's also hard when your cultivation just distributes a retailer to now get face time with the Retailer's, right? You can't go in anymore and we have to get back to that and we will get back to that and I think that that's where it always is. I know that rejects getting ready. You. A farmers market that's going to happen. Licensed or distributor and but he'll show up, it's going to be an amazing event. And every time those events take place your right here. Come the connections. Oh my gosh, this is an outdoor flower. Wow I really want to, you know, I'm making this over here and I'd like to use your flower and here we go. And that's something that we also need. We need you know, when Online Marketplace, we need ways to continue to connect and like I say let's continue to prop each other. We can compete fine but let's do so in the spirit of the plant. And doing something good and the people that really understand the Entourage effect of CBD, and terpenes and THC, and aren't just looking to produce a 35 percent THC string. Let's work together, let's put two bloods, put together groups to support each other to move this move. This plant is forward in the way that we want. Instead of the way that we're being told, or we're being forced to, and that's going to happen through connection. And the strength will be in bringing these groups together to work to work towards that goal, not sort of tripping over each other, and I see a lot of them. And I'm going by that. I love that. Do you see that? And that's where we are. Where we need to work together, whether you consult an attorney is seeking to really plug into that space. Instead of these big monsters, these big Behemoths are looking to put out your teacher. You fought next box of Kleenex,

Levi: right? Right. Yep yeah yeah I think you know there's a lot of challenges that are going to be a bumpy road and it probably will be for a long time and never underestimate the stupidity of the US government on drug policy. So I don't see cannabis getting fast track to legalization in the next year or two. I think it's going to be a long, arduous struggle and they're going to kind of just very slowly. The Banking Act, I think will be a big step, you know, if we can get that push through, that's going to be a game-changer decriminalization. We don't have to have our legal recreational Market federally just yet. But can we at least just decriminalize its people stop going to jail for having to join Arkansas? You know, that's big. For me it is like we need to stop that immediately. People should not be going to jail for having less than, you know, a gram of in. This is still happening, not only a lot of people in California. Might not understand that people are still going to jail in this country for having a joint on them that needs to change immediately. So anything we can do collectively to like I think the Cannabis industry, we can get so hyper focused on, you know, my brand and you know, I'm trying to win the emerald cup and but I think also kind of keeping you know reaching out to the people all over the country. Oklahoma is doing some really cool stuff in the Cannabis space. I can't wait for Texas to Legal. Let's see what the Lone Star State does with cannabis. I can't wait to see how Texas manages, you know, with their approach to business that they have. I think it could be great, you know, it'd be the polar opposite. California. I would consider moving to Texas if they did it right, you know, if they've got like Oklahoma, Oklahoma, no cap on licenses, right? I think that's what's going on there? Great, bring everybody in. Let's see what we can really do. We don't need to have this giant Behemoth bureaucracy. The Cannabis industry is doing a really good job of self-regulating. I was always impressed at how well the space self-regulated, it was like, if one year Tremors were only making two hundred pound instead of 250. It was like everybody. Kind of shifted together and the Tremors it's like there weren't labor unions or anything but there was communication between the groups of trimmers and The Growers going, hey, you know we can't work for less than 200 and you're going to need to give us a meal a day and there was kind of like things kind of and I'm not saying people weren't being taken advantage of and anybody that's watch what's that movie on Netflix, you know, the about all the murders and the sex trafficking going on murder Mountain. Burning martyr Mountaineer. Yeah, sure. That was there. Is that going on? It's tiny. Of what's happened in most of the time people in the space are good people and I think in carer usually people get into cannabis not because they're you know it's a little different than some other illicit industry as I'll just put it that way but I'm cannabis does attract typically pretty good people that care about each other and then the Earth and that gives me a lot of Hope but Lauren's been great having you on man. I'd love to have you back. I know I tried to tempt you into some really good conspiracy talk but I'll have to get you next time. Maybe when you're back in California and we can, maybe we can do this in person. I'm going to get the podcast Studio set up so that I can have a little more of an interactive experience. We can smoke together. We can drink some good coffee. So I'd love to have you back on and I'm going to make sure how people can find you if somebody out there that's listening. That's like I really need to talk to a good consultant. I want to get my business. How can people find you?

Lorne: My website is You can also just Google my name Lorne Silverstein. It will come up. My phone numbers five three zero two one nine, three, three, three, six. If the big billboard flashes right now, but listen and then anybody who does contact me, please recognize you. I'm happy to share information with you. I really, you know, this is about connection for me connection to the Earth, connection to the plant, connection to people doing good things for good people and I'm very fortunate that I've been able to carve out a space to work with wonderful people.

Levi: Thanks for joining me today on Head Change the podcast that puts you in a better head space. I've been your host Levi Strom.  Full transcripts of today's episode are available on our blog at If you'd like to listen to more podcasts like this you can join the conversation on anchor FM and YouTube. Until next time, peace.

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