Landrace Cannabis - Jeff Nordahl

Jeff Nordahl

Jeff Nordahl from his cabin in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California

 

Jeff Nordahl, founder of California based Jade Nectar told me that he once “kinda believed the propaganda” against cannabis and that it was probably “frying my brain.” That was until he came down with a debilitating case of Lyme disease in 2010 and when pharmaceuticals didn’t work he turned to cannabis. 


He had heard of people juicing raw cannabis from Dr. William Courtney, so he started growing his own cannabis in his backyard and eating the raw leaves and putting them in his smoothies. The THCa found in raw cannabis has documented positive effects on auto-immune diseases, so the raw cannabis helped, A LOT!


Jeff continues to grow his Santa Cruz Mountain landrace cannabis strains and still infuses the flowers into olive oil for his tincture products. He tells me he has plans to release some of the flowers on the California market soon too. Can’t wait!


It was a real treat to speak with someone with such a familiar story, passion and reverence for the plant. I hope you enjoy the interview as much as we did.


1hr 14min

 

Transcripts of this episode made possible thanks to a generous donation by Jeanne Nasarow at Bee Haven Hill Farms.

 

FULL TRANSCRIPT

 

Levi: Hey Jeff, how's it going?

 

Jeff: Yeah, hey. How's it going?

 

Levi: Good. (chuckles)

 

Jeff: Are we, uh what's up? Sorry I just came stumbling out of my greenhouse. I was dealing with something so uh . . . 

 

Levi: Oh shoot.

 

Jeff: I kinda lost track of time, but . . . 

 

Levi: That's alright man. 

 

Jeff: You still wanna do this? 

 

Levi: Yeah, of course. Yeah absolutely. 

 

Jeff: Ok. 

 

Levi: Yeah, we're rolling, I see you got the banjo and the guitar. I got my guitars behind me so . . 

 

Jeff: Oh yeah!

 

Levi: We can jam out!

 

Jeff: We live a pretty simple lifestyle here. Just live in a cabin up in the forest and we grow cannabis and spread it with people who are interested. So, that's . . . what we do. 

 

Levi: Yeah, I've been wanting to meet you for years because obviously, we make some similar products on the market. I have a ton of respect for anybody doing things the right way and using the infusion process and really trying to make whole plant medicine. That is getting lost a little bit. 

 

Jeff: Yeah, and it's hard to know what's right and wrong. It's all relative. You have to make your own choices and such but where we come from and where our strengths and trust and confidence in that we're putting out the best medicine we know how to do right now is just leaving the plant alone and trusting nature that nature got it right and the universe. And then also the multi thousand year history of people just consuming cannabis as is. If someone can show me a hieroglyphic or some carving on some ancient temple or such that shows a butane extraction machine making distillate and this that was their medicine. I might change my mind but it seems that a few thousand years of history of cannabis working with medicine and the sacred plant before all these laboratory nanoparticles and infused distillate junk food, basically the high fructose corn syrup processed food model applied to cannabis.

 

Levi: Yeah, and the fossil fuel industry model, you know?

 

Jeff: Yeah, yeah!

 

Levi: Using derivatives of oil drilling these natural gases, their capturing butane and these hydrocarbons from drilling and oftentimes a lot of people that support butane say, well, hey, you know they're drilling and it's just going to get lost. Otherwise there's going to burn it up at least we're recycling that. But in fact, from what I hear, you know, they often times our virgin drilling for these gases and destroying pristine wilderness to pull out the hydrocarbons and natural gases. And of course it's the nature of capitalism to try to find the cheapest way to do things and tend to hype the marketing, and the nanoparticles and all that but philosophical, I'm totally with you. Like I believe getting out of the way and letting the plant express itself and staying true to ancient customs and wisdom that surround the manufacturing of this medicine, this sacred medicine like you put it and i really think it is too, but I'd love to just kind of learn more about you, Jeff and Jade Nectar and you know how you got into growing cannabis and I definitely want to talk with you a little bit about landrace because I think that's a term that most people don't even know and I know you're dedicating a lot of your efforts at your farm to grow these landrace genetics. So how did you get into growing cannabis? Maybe I just can't give us a brief history.

 

Jeff: Okay. Yeah, the real quick cliff notes basically. I mean, I've been a cannabis enthusiasts and altered states and psychedelic since my early teen years just was always fascinated big fan and then I mean I have a lot of I was kind of punk, rock kind of alternative, kind of that, that style that back then to psychedelic see cannabis or its punk rock's thrash metal scene inside and that's what music, you know, that's kind of tells you where your heads at and such. So for a counterculture and then I grew up in Missouri. The Grateful Dead never actually came through Missouri in the 80's and 90s, so, I probably wouldn't have graduated high school if they had, but then I ended up just on a whim going to a Grateful Dead show in 1991 in Kansas, and yeah, so that sort of solidified, the whole psychedelic concept and movement and just seeing you helped 50,000 people, you know . . . 

 

Levi: Had you been to a Grateful Dead show before then? I was your first first one, your first one on psychedelics.

 

Jeff: Yeah, and had a whole psychedelic history prior to the Grateful Dead.

 

Levi: That was my mistake. I went to a dead show sober and that's a huge mistake and then I went to 1 on mushrooms way better. So we're pro tip right there.

 

Jeff: It really is and I mean, it is all about the music and everything too. And I love just the music and everything, but yeah, it's kind of the point.

 

Levi: So the dead turned a / punk rocker into a hippie. Basically as I more or less what happened.

 

Jeff: Yeah, well, full spectrum that there were other ways to express yourself there and then you know and then getting into the music in touch with especially if you listen to the old Grateful Dead sub 60's stuff, it was actually punk rock. I mean the energy was so vibrant.

 

Levi: Are you talking about Aoxomoxoa and like the really early stuff?

Jeff: Yeah, and . . . 

 

Levi: That heavy San Francisco sound?

 

Jeff: Yeah. If you just listen to some of the jams too, I mean they're pretty intense, not aggressive or hostile.

 

Levi: It wasn't commercial at all, like The Dead didn't get commercial until a few years later when they needed to really start selling records. And they're like, yeah, we can write Casey Jones right if you pop tunes. But yeah, no, I like that early stuff too.

 

Jeff: Yeah, just tapping into all the different musical genres. Country and folk didn't have to necessarily be listening to music. Like, it could actually be pretty aggressive and intense emotions and cathartic and touch with that. So anyway I don't want to dwell too much on the Grateful Dead but that's some core foundational stuff.

 

Levi: Music is a big part of this podcast. You know I'm a musician and cannabis and music obviously go hand in hand. So . . . 

 

Jeff: And by the way here's something to think about as, as far as landrace too, the reality if you go back and listen to music from the sixties and seventies, which some people feel is like, the ultimate renaissance of psychedelic music and the whole format, rock and roll and improvisation, even though the improvisation goes all the way back to Jazz in the 20's with like, Louis Armstrong number one. But anyway . . . 

 

Levi: Big stoner too, Louis. 

 

Jeff: Yeah, exactly. There seems to be a common thread. [laughs]

 

Levi: [laughs] People that make good art usually are doing drugs. That's what seems to be in the thread early silly when they're young for sure.

 

Jeff: I wouldn't want my brain surgeon or my accountant necessarily doing those. But if I go to a concert I prefer to have my musicians marinated in psychedelics. But anyway, the thing is that landrace, that's all there was back in the sixties and seventies was landrace.

 

Levi: Define what landrace is, I know a lot of people are not going to have any idea what that term means. 

 

Jeff: Yeah. So anyway, so landrace, there is a lot of confusion about that. Some people think landrace means just the native cannabis. Let's say Afghanistan or Pakistan or Mexico or Africa, and they think that it's like a wild occurring native species that exists out in the wild without humans touching, but that's not the case at all. Cannabis is a domesticated plant, but just like cucumbers, beans and okra and such like that. They're in different parts of the world. There are like, Armenian melons that are unique just to that area. And it's not because they were wild and native in nature. It's just that particular region or those human beings that village bred over time what their aesthetic or their ultimate melon or cucumber would be to satisfy their cultural aesthetic, their taste, their dishes and such like. So if you have let's say some Armenian melon, it might be totally different from melon from India or one that's grown here for Safeway here at the supermarket. So it's just a unique sort of heirloom, but it's unique.

 

Levi: I was just wondering what is it? Basically, would it be akin to an heirloom variety of cannabis?

 

Jeff: Yeah, but it's tied to the region. It's because like so as far as Madagascar will, it's not that everyone in Madagascar grows the exact kind, same kind of weed, but, you know . . . 

 

Levi: If you were to generalize an area.

 

Jeff: Yeah, they have because of the genetics that they had available to them at their fingertips and then through their selective breeding, over generations and generations of breeding, they develop their own variety that's unique just like say that village in Madagascar. And so that is a landrace, being isolated from other strains. It's not at this point sure if at one point it was probably a hybrid, but because it's been so in-bread and in-bread with that human intention and selective breeding. It's now a completely unique variety. It's not unlike dogs, like I have like people who know what Rhodesian Ridgeback is or an Anatolian Shepherd or a Great Pyrenees. Those are actually sort of landrace dog breeds. So like the Anatolian Shepherd is found in turkey in the Anatolian mountains of turkey and they bred it specifically to watch their sheep. They are fiercely independent and are able to fend for themselves so that, you know, totally in chapter. It may be related, other Shepherd type dogs, but no question about when you see an Anatolian Shepherd, It is its own unique variety. 

 

Levi: And I think that's a nice finer point too, because I think a lot of people can understand dog and horse breeding, but they have a hard time with cannabis genetics, but cannabis has a male and a female just kind of do genetics 101. And if you take the male pollen and you put it on the female flower, you'll get a cross between those two gene pools and everything the history that comes with this to gene pools, which is kind of where we get our modern hybrid, you know, allegedly of crossing kind of these old-school indicas like from Afghanistan is sativas from Latin America and Southeast Asia, right? And kind of what I'm hearing from you too is, and I had always assumed landrace was kind of that open pollination, natural cannabis . . . 

 

Jeff: Totally domesticated, human intervention 100 percent. 

 

Levi: And it sounds like a defining feature to be a landrace cannabis strain that there's some regional history behind it. So places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, South East Asia, Latin America that have been cultivating and breeding these plants for hundreds, if not thousands of years would qualify to be landrace cannabis. Does that sound accurate?

 

Jeff: Absolutely.

 

Levi: So some wild hemp grown out in Wyoming in the field is not necessarily landrace, that's just some wild . . . 

 

Jeff: That's feral. Landrace has human intervention and human domestication and human intention going into that breeding process.

 

Levi: Gotcha. Cool, I didn't know that, but that's new to me,

 

Jeff: You need to know that. And then also pigs, like I happen to have two Cooney pigs that are from New Zealand. And those pigs were bred for a very specific reason.

 

Levi: Those are the little ones?

 

Jeff: No actually they're kind of like a potbelly, definitely look them up. They are one of the coolest pigs out there. They don't Roo. So they don't care about things up, they can actually fatten up by just eating grass and fruit, they call them orchard pigs, because they wander around an orchard and just need the following through. And then they have a really nice demeanor, super friendly, and I'm not a kunekune specialist or anything, but it's just a reflection of a cultures aesthetic and environmental needs that they have infused into their breeding to meet their aesthetic, cultural, environmental needs. And that because of those human choices, they've resulted, the result is a pig, a dog, cannabis, a cucumber, that's specific to that particular region.

 

Levi: And why? So now that it's not the kind of people that are listening can understand that cannabis is the result of breeding. Can we talk a little bit about Indica sativa and hybrid, you know, these terms, from my perspective, mean very little today and pretty much everything is a hybrid. But can you unpack that a little bit for people and help them understand what these terms are supposed to mean at least?

 

Jeff: Again, I just want to make sure that it's clear that I don't claim to be a specialist, this is just my own interpretation, but Indica is just a plant, like the physicality of the plant is unique.

 

Levi: As these indicas would come from India, right? The Hindu Kush mountain range?

 

Jeff: Well, in India, the tropical side inside and such those are the sativas, but the Indica tends to be mainly, like, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Sorry, my daughter is playing her ukulele. 

 

Levi: It's all right, a little background music.

 

Jeff: Good. Okay, well anyway cool. If it's not distracting so definitely encourage the art but it's hard to concentrate. [laughs] But so is Indica. I mean, I guess again I'm not you know, like a formally trained botanist or horticulturist or such, but I mean Indica tends to be squat, hardier plants that are in like the Hindu Kush mountains in the dryer, more arid extreme temperature zones. They don't have the luxury of being these long lanky, super long flowering time things, because winter will come and just destroy them. So they need to get their work done quickly because the winters come in, there's not a lot of moisture. So, they also need to remain kind of short and stockier. And that also helps them deal with more extreme, you know, wind temperatures and things like that.

 

Levi: This is where we get the eight and half hour flowering OG's and stuff right? These would be classic indica?

 

Jeff: Yeah, so the indica naturally, just has to for that variety to survive. Hold on. Just one moment. My daughter did go outside, but she's right outside my window. [laughs]

 

Levi: Now I can hear it. No problem.

 

Jeff: Hey, honey, it sounds absolutely beautiful. I love It would you mind just going in like over there? I'm totally supportive, but it's distracting. Thank you. Anyway, what are they working on our whole quarantine coexisting as a family and every once in a while we get some bumps, but . . . 

 

Levi: That's what is kind of cool right now, all the zoom meetings everyone gets a little window into people's real lives and it's kind of cool. 

 

Jeff: Yeah, it's . . . [laughs] Anyway anyway, so just the reality is an indica If you were trying to grow you know, 16 or 18 week flowering tropical equatorial sativa in arid region where the snow is coming in October, it would just never produce seeds, it would be totally impractical in that region. So the Indica's are a reflection of their environment. And this is a generalization of what's indica and sativa and then there's a lot of In between things. I have. I've never grown that before, but I have seen, there's actually some sativas that are grown in Afghanistan. Now, they would have to be a shorter flowering period but how do they determine that that is sativa? I don't really know until you see it. 

 

Levi: It seems like we oftentimes in the industry it's based on the leaf structure and Indica is kind of shorter five pronged leaves and sativas have broader 9-11 prong leaves .  . 

 

Jeff: And the longer, lankier, thin . . . 

 

Levi: Right,  but even that doesn't hold up under scrutiny sometimes. I think we're not really going to know until we get better at genetically testing varieties and figuring out. But I didn't want to open up the can of worms on Indica and Sativa. And you can see I was kind of under your quick opinion on. I just think it's something where there's a ton of  confusion and I hate going into shops and they're like, do you like indica or sativa? And it's like, I don't even know how to answer that question.

 

Jeff: It's really more, cuz cuz we grow the weird thing is we grow a lot of what would be considered landrace, pure, pure indica's. I'm a huge fan of the Iranian version, and they've grown a bunch of Afghan straight from Afghan seeds. The beauty of the internet and all the seed trading is you can tap into some of these really cool genetics now without actually having to transport yourself around the world. I mean, it's cheating in a way, but in reality, a lot of people don't have time especially in this day and age with a pandemic to be traveling around harvesting seeds. Plus a lot of the seeds or genetics are starting to get hybridized as well. So it's, you know, kind of a crap shoot even going through the area of origin to find the real deal.

 

Levi: I experienced that in Oaxaca. I tried to find some real Oaxacan sativas and everyone was like, we've got AK-47, you know, from California.

 

Jeff: Well that's why it will happen. You can hike up to some village in the Himalayas, you know, thinking you're gonna find some ancient seed and they'll be like "hey man we've got Blue Dream." [chuckles]

 

Levi: Right, you'll probably find Blue Dream at the top of a monastery in the Hindu Kush. [laughs]

 

Jeff: [laughs] We're in a global world now, so it is happening. So thankfully, yeah, there's, you know, people who are doing the preservation work and such like that, But . . . 

 

Levi: How different are these Iranian plants? I've seen some photos on your Instagram, which are beautiful , but the buds just look so different. The color spectrum, the density, everything about them. I'm sure the smell is just probably truly unique and outside of the Blue Dream, Gelato world that we're kind of stuck in here in California.

 

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. So, by the way, what I was trying to get to the quiet finish was with the land raised and with the music of the 60s and 70s, if people think Cannabis in a is better than what was being consumed in the 60s and 70s. Just listen to the music. [cuckles]

 

Levi: People often times say it's stronger, which is this based on THC percentage and that's might be true generally, but I'm sure if you went back to the 60s and 70s, you could, if you tested some of the best of the best, some of the Thai sticks and stuff, you know, you would get incredibly high THC percentages.

 

Jeff: Well, high THC, but it's full spectrum, psychedelic. And don't tell me that Bob Marley was smoking dirt weed or Jerry Garcia or any of these other musicians. The Beatles didn't tell me they were smoking shit weed. Just listen to the music. But, the interesting thing, yeah, with these, all of the pure indica's that we've grown, that are supposedly your origin landrace indica from Afghanistan and Pakistan, Iran. I've grown a few others from other regions, but Indica with those is not, they're not [00:23:48] couch-lock at all. Now, they may be very relaxing, your body may feel very loose and relaxed kind of like you went and got a massage but this whole sleepy couch-lock, lethargic, I can't remember my name and I'm going to go fall asleep with a half-eaten piece of pizza in my mouth sensation. I haven't experienced any landrace that does that.

 

Levi: And you've probably terpene tested these and our, what do you see the terpene profile? Some of these landraces?

 

Jeff: Actually, I wish I could say that I've done a bunch of terpene tests, but . . . 

 

Levi: One more cost huh?

 

Jeff: Well, it's that and then I kind of resist this whole going by the labs and telling me what's good.

 

Levi: Just for the scientific inquiry of it. What I'd be curious to see one just because what I would expect to see having tested some, what I would consider unique cannabis has, you know, a lab test OG Kush and I see three to five terpenes really dominate, you know, you'll have: myrcene, beta caryophyllene, alpha pinene, limonene and then you test something that's more unique and I'll see 17, 19, 20 cannabinoids at a much broader spectrum. We're not seeing myrcene at 2% and everything else barely registering you're seeing a real variety and you're getting that entourage effect and that synergy of these terpenes and cannabinoids. And I imagine that's what would be going on from a scientific perspective, but I'm with you man, I think following your nose and not let in the labs, dictate everything is a great approach and for a breeder especially I'm so glad people are doing that because it's, we need to be doing that. If everybody's going down the same path for the same nose profile, we're going to lose some of the best genetics. They might have medicinal qualities that we need A, and just enjoyable qualities to smoke something unique and and switch it up a little bit and stimulate your brain and new ways, you know?

 

Jeff: Yeah, and it's cool to know what's going on and be aware of it and such, but letting the labs just dictate all of your decisions and such, if they show numbers on a piece of paper is just not that mystical. I mean, it's like, are you going to talk to our Shaman in the rainforest about their, you know, their Ayahuasca? And then start . . 

 

Levi: How many mg's?

 

Jeff: Having the lab start choosing which shamans Ayahuasca is better based on, you know, levels of certain compounds. And stuff.

 

Levi: I think it's really interesting. You bring that up and imagine the two different cannabis industries as we have had. Now, if there was no lab testing, everyone was truly following their nose and their experience was kind of like how we used to back in the prop 215 days.

 

Jeff: The weed was better in the 90's. . . 

 

Levi: It was better. I agree. Even 10 years ago. I'm talking about the dispensaries. I feel like when you could go and you get these mason jars of Bud and you'd have all these great. There's no percentage, no one, no one cares. It was. How does it look? How does it smell? You know, what's my, what's my experience when I'm opening this jar and looking at it and smelling it, is it registering is a connection with me now, it's branding, the Strain name the THC percentage you're left with very little choices unfortunately as a consumer.

 

Jeff: Hey man, Everclear is the most potent. So that must be the best. [cuckles]

 

Levi: Right. Now that would be the logical conclusion of that. It's going to take a while. The industry will I think pivot back around because it's prohibition that's caused this mentality.

 

Jeff: Yeah, and it's a I think it's right now. Yeah, it's just yeah, bigger, better, faster, heavier. And then the look to has also become it's kind of silly like all these top, like, sort of macho folks are involved in a beauty pageant, you know, as far as they're growing ornamental flowers to take photographs of and airbrush them and kind of treat it almost like, it starts looking like, I don't mean to be vulgar, but it certainly looking almost like, you know, like porn photography or it's or a beauty pageant kind of thing where how things are judged and the actual fact and the experience you have almost is not even relevant anymore. It's about big numbers, big looks ,big colors. So the whole value system is just turned upside down and it's tough, to quantify and evaluate a product with where it's going to like you have to try it and experience it and it's these unexplainable just connection and resonance, you can't put that in a little slogan or trademark on a package. So it's we're kind of stuck in this weird where the marketing, dysfunctional marketing system, shopping mall marketing systems now being applied to cannabis, and it's just not really a good fit. 

 

Levi: Do you think the regional designation that California is mapping out is going to help that a little bit and help consumers make more informed choices?

 

Jeff: Not really, because capital investors will set up commercial industrial farms in that region and call it. It's so, I mean there's some value to the region, but it's just even the people who are. I don't know. I'm kind of in my own little bubble, so I don't really know what else is going on out there. 

 

Levi: And the bubble you're in, Santa Cruz, which is where you're growing, correct. 

 

Jeff: Yeah.

 

Levi: Up in the mountains. I love Santa Cruz sun grown flowers. I used to live in Big Sur and I used to date a girl in Bonny Dune. And I mean, I've smoked some incredible weed. Santa Cruz should be included in California's regional designation. It has a unique cannabis history.

 

Jeff: Absolutely, but I'm going to give you a total buzz kill. 99% of the actual regulated, the license Santa Cruz County Farms are located in the commercial ag zones in the lowlands in Watsonville nothing against Watsonville, but that is the lowest foggiest most toxic pesticide region of the entire county. So the real deal Santa Cruz mountain flower is all being done either black market or and I don't mean to. I'm not trying to toot my own horn or make anyone feel bad. We had to put a lot of work into it but our farm, and our farms may be the only farms that are licensed in the Santa Cruz mountains. The actual terroir that Santa Cruz is known for. We have one in San Lorenzo Valley, like in the Boulder Creek area. And then one, In Soquel. Soquel is a town in Santa Cruz county. San Jose road close to the summit.

 

Levi: How many, how many people do you know, people had licenses in Santa Cruz? You know, how many? And, and if you're the only one left, you know, I mean this is happening up in the Emerald Triangle too. I mean, this is what I've been afraid of for years is they're going to push everybody out into the flat lands and to the agricultural zone regions. We're going to lose our personalities. 

 

Jeff: That's what's going on. And in reality, I mean, for me, cannabis is a mountain plant almost everywhere where it's growing.

 

Levi: Kind of like we're talking about these landraces, right? We're talking about this, the, it's always, it's a mountain. It chooses to grow in the mountains. It likes the slopes, right? It likes high drainage.

 

Jeff: We talked about the ethereal.

 

Levi: It likes to be high. Yeah, it's connecting with God,

 

Jeff: And then high and dry again. If you were going with Pinot Noir grapes, the county forced you to grow it down into the lowlands, in the fog bank. You would not have . . . so people are, you know, contorting and adjusting and doing everything to bring. So I'm not dumping on anyone who's doing that? I'm sure there's some really good stuff being being grown, but it's, you know, you have to contort and adjust incorrect quite a bit just to pull things off with these these areas where, If anyone had a choice to grow and cannabis anywhere, the lowlands in a commercial ag zone with pesticide drift and everything else going on. It's probably not the first place people would choose, but that's where everyone's been forced because our county, the powers that be, it's kind of a long story, but they many years ago passed a very progressive cannabis ordinance that allowed everyone under prop 215 to grow up to 30,000 square feet of cannabis, which was a shit ton for back then, right? So that seemed like a real win for our local cannabis community. The problem is that it got published in High Times magazine and every weed publication. Hey, if you want to grow weed Santa Cruz is your place. So, all these people from around the globe, walked to Santa Cruz and then just started trashing the place and doing these fast money, hussle, black market ventures and they destroyed the whole place and ruined it for everyone. So it was . . . 

 

Levi: And now they've gone full the other side of the equation. Clamp down it sounds like?

 

Jeff: Yeah, so the little dance is we have a very pro cannabis population. So if our Board of Supervisors bans cannabis, which they actually wanted to, they would have been overridden with a voter initiative, the override worked so. So what they did was they said, okay, we'll let you grow wherever you want, get registered and such but then use regulation and fire code to weaponize the regulation to make it impossible. So they actually are saying yeah you can grow, we support you and everything but by the way, it's going to cause the millions put in the driveway and the water sewerage you need so good luck. So most people just chose the path of least resistance, going commercial ag and that's where most of the county government.

 

Levi: What made you decide to fight the good fight and preserve your farm? And I'm sure it took a massive investment of time, labor and energy and money. 

 

Jeff: It was kind of a long story but [00:35:40] there's a thing called lobbying, which has nothing to do with money or backdoor deals or anything. But you go out and meet with your local Representatives and you show up at the meeting. And you make your case for what you want to do, plus our whole background. And again, I'm not trying to be self-righteous, but with cannabis when you're coming from a place of, we want to connect, help connect people with cannabis in a positive way if people are interested. Not in an evangelical kind of way trying to push cannabis on anyone, but if anyone especially who's dealing with a health crisis, that conventional medicine is not set up to deal with well, like, these autoimmune diseases. I actually have Lyme disease. That's where I was turned on to the healing wellness powers of cannabis, that's a whole other story, but by putting that goal and mission first, is that just wanting to serve the community and know that there's people out there in these sort of hopeless helpless health crises, that's not their fault and the cannabis may actually be an option that could either want cure them or even it or just improve their quality of life tremendously in a non-toxic way. If that's the true motive and not trying to build a cannabis empire and claim that you own cannabis and exploit it for your own personal financial well being, but [00:37:42] if you just want to serve the community and connect, help people connect in a positive way with cannabis, which is really nature, which is the universe, which is the natural flow of things. People seem to understand that and it's tough to villainize that mission. Yeah, and so if you can propose that that's where you're coming from, sometimes you can get a little positive response from the powers that be and you just got to prove that you're not going to embarrass them. If they say yes or something,

 

Levi: I've encountered the same thing when I started Awakened in 2014 at a farmers market in Los Angeles, I'm bringing to the table raw olive oil, whole plant and fuse tinctures and topicals that I made from weed I grew in my backyard with love and care and there's this amazing product and I get sued by the city of LA for Prop D violations anybody in LA will know what I'm talking about and it was all bullshit, but I ended up getting dropped from the case and I represented myself in court and I really showed up and, you know, I showed up and suits like and talked with the city council. I think I really advocated for cannabis. I was like, I'm not backing down, this is medicine. We have a homeless crisis and LA, why are we even focusing on this? But I wasn't mean and I showed up and I was respectful and I engaged in a conversation with them and I think I really converted them and that, by the end of, it took three years of litigation. But even the deputy city attorney in LA came to me and said, I'm really rooting for your brand because I really believe in what you're doing. And I know this is medicine and you know, godspeed. I think maybe I, you know, maybe I changed a few hearts and minds in the LA city council's office by being such a passionate advocate for the plant and when you do show up and say, hey, look, I'm making these tinctures and topics for people with chronic debilitating arthritis and and all these autoimmune diseases. It's hard to argue with it. And when they can see your intent is real and you're not just trying to sell a bunch of Girl Scout Cookies to 25 year old kids, which is fine too, but it's a very different approach when you're taking that medicinal approach and you know. I really respect your brand Jade Nectar and you make tinctures. I think you're making a topic as well. So you've stayed kind of really in that medicinal lane.

 

Jeff: Yeah, and by the way, I'd love to hear more about your company at some point. And it's just, it's just very interesting that you came to the conclusion of all cannabis, olive oil, and raw cannabis.

 

Levi: So I was living in LA in an intentional community, I was growing cannabis in my backyard is doing a light dep in East LA, very scary, but I was growing these CBD strains and I was there was a lot of herbalists and healers there I'd come from Big Sur, which is a Mecca of herbalist and healers. I was very in tune with natural herbalism, even though I'm not, I'm a self-taught herbalist. So when it came to manufacturing cannabis products, one I thought well how can I do this at scale? I can't afford a supercritical CO2 extractor, but I can dump olive oil and whole plant cannabis together. Throw it in the stainless steel vat out in the sun on a hot day and then strain it with cheesecloth. I can do that in my kitchen and I started doing that with raw flowers with cured flowers, but not decarbed flowers.

 

Jeff: And yeah, so dry, right?

 

Levi: Dried flower and [00:41:35] I'd broken my neck surfing and I'm allergic to painkillers, so I had a direct need for cannabis. That's why I started making these products, to help myself. Never to have a brand or to sell a product, that came way later, but just through trial and error and formulating I figured out that THCa and CBDa we're having a much greater effect for me on my pain levels and they weren't intoxicating. I could go to work. I was pouring concrete and doing roofing at the time. So I could not be intoxicated on a roof, you know, the bigger you are, the harder you fall and this was like in Big Sur Bixby canyon I would have died. So CBDa and THCa probably saved my life in more ways than one.

 

Jeff: Cool. It's just amazing. I think we came to the exact same conclusions, but from totally separate worlds, we haven't met until now, but I think we came to the exact same conclusions on what was effective. Myself, I had Lyme disease, really, and just, yeah, I was in my mid-30s and all of a sudden debilitating Lyme disease with all this inflammation. I had all these chemical sensitivities and such where I just constantly had headaches and I hadn't even touched cannabis, for probably about 10 years with every once in a while, you know, a few events and such but it just wasn't serving me. And then also, you know, and [00:43:04] I kind of believe the propaganda. I thought cannabis was actually probably frying my brain or something at some point. And if I continued to consume it it would eventually have negative effects on me. 

 

Levi: They've invested a lot into that negative propaganda campaign, you know, it's not a lot of people there. Yeah.

 

Jeff: So I, you know, so that's but when the Lyme thing hit, you know, I went through a bunch of different ways and tried to address that. None of the conventional stuff worked, but I wasn't satisfied with just believing that I was going to be, you know, feeling awful the rest of my life and I'm gonna limp to the finish line. So luckily my part of my doctor's happened to be [00:43:52] Jerry Garcia's doctor at one time. He's a pretty hippie dippie out there guy, but anyway, he recommended cannabis for helping with inflammation and such. So I just tried, you know, a few products at the local dispensary and sure enough did notice like, wow, this is really my body's feeling comfortable for the first time in quite some time. So, and then this was, this is around 2010. And that's when we had that really nice ordinance here in Santa Cruz. So I was aware that we could grow our own. So, I threw, you know, I think like 20 plants my first year: Amnesia Haze, Cherry Pie, and then some really cool Hawaiian things. I wish I could find it because it turns out that my first run was one of the most killer varieties. 

 

Levi: Beginners luck. [laughs]

 

Jeff: And I had no idea how cool it was, but anyway, [00:44:57] while tending to the garden, I ended up starting to eat the leaves, like clipping the leaves off and saying, throw them on the ground. I just thought I'd eat them and then I noticed that the effect was just, you know, the THCa.

 

Levi: The THCa, I was just thinking for any autoimmune disorder THCa is probably going to be the best or certainly one of the lead cannabinoids for that.

 

Jeff: [00:45:18] Absolutely and no one's aware of it until Oprah Winfrey or Dr. Oz, or Sanjay Gupta does a documentary on raw cannabinoids it's not going to enter the mainstream, but I'm convinced that that's where most of the wellness medicine is in the raw cannabinoids.

 

Levi: Oh one hundred percent. I mean, they're far more potent, you need less of them. It makes sense that the natural plant, the raw plant would, our body would receive it better. It's going to mimic our endocannabinoids even better than the decarbed versions and I'm a fan of all of the cannabinoids, but of the phytocannabinoids I think THCa and CBDa in particular are the two least understood least talked about least studied with the highest potential.

 

Jeff: Well, and when we do a little fast forward, I was eating the leaves, then I looked on the internet because I was like, oh I better make sure they're not toxic or something. That means something harmful to myself and that's when I stumbled upon [00:46:22] Dr. Courtney who was doing that now there's a doctor and a whole community who are advocating for juicing leaves. So from that point on for two years straight I just consumed leaves everyday.

 

Levi: Juicing them or putting them into your smoothie?

 

Jeff: Yeah, I'd just take them right off the plant but then because in between seasons and such. So then I started freezing. So here's a big thing, by the way. Dr. Courtney and by the way, his work and getting that message out there. Huge.

 

Levi: He was the one that first exposed me to THCa too. Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be talking about this with you if not for Dr. William Courtenay, hundred percent.

 

Jeff: So, absolutely huge. But one thing that at least my own interpretation, is he advocates [00:47:16] juicing, which is where you separate the pulp and just make the juice, but very soon if you start doing that you'll find that you're going to have a giant mound at like 5 pounds of pulp and a dixie cup of juice cause there's not a lot of liquid in those leaves. If you go and eat that pulp that got separated, you'll find that it still gives you the effect of the medicine that didn't leave. So very quickly found to efficiently do this, you actually, in my opinion you don't want to juice it, you actually just want to puree it. It is just like pesto, don't throw away the leaf. Don't throw away the fiber, because that's actually a lot of the good stuff. So we started just, you just get a blender and puree it like pesto. I throw a little banana or something to keep it homogenous so it doesn't separate as you freeze it and then you can just eat those ice cubes for years. They're, they're totally affected and and that's where Jade Nectar actually started, we were actually a cannabis frozen cannabis juice cube company.

 

Levi: I remember that, that product is not on the compliance market I imagine probably too difficult.

 

Jeff: Well, here's, here's the thing. We got it passed in the state because we had ended. Anyway, we started a whole collective and started meeting with people because I was just, you know, it starts blowing your mind when you see, you give it to friends and people with migraines and MS and fibromyalgia, and such like that start reporting like, oh my God, this is the thing that's helped me the most in the last 15 years and I can actually get off some of these gnarly medications. You kind of almost feel an ethical moral responsibility that you need to share this message with people and try and get it out there.

 

Levi: That's, that's what's so amazing, it's so potent. I remember back in the prop 215 days when we could demo and give people the real thing. I would give people some of my product and I would be like, by the time you're done, like, if I saw somebody limping in, I'd be like, rub this balm on drink this by the time you're out of here I promise you're going to be feeling better. And 99% of the time, they come back and go. Oh my God, like what is in that? This is raw cannabis, you know. 

 

Jeff: Yeah!

 

Levi:  This is the pure, the real, the real shit here. You know.

 

Jeff: It's absolutely amazing. Once you see that you know that.

 

Levi: You can heal people with it. I think we sometimes make the claims, and this is my opinion, sometimes the claims of cannabis get exaggerated by the industry. I think raw cannabis really does heal people. Like, I just firmly believe that if for any an autoimmune or inflammatory related ailment, if you're consuming raw phytoactive rich, whole plant, full spectrum, cannabis there's nothing better. there's no greater single wellness, biohack, blah blah blah product on the market, you know, that you could be consuming on daily basis than the raw cannabinoids, and even going a step further, because not many people can consume raw cannabis unless you're a grower, right? So to put it into a product by mixing it with olive oil, like you do and like we do at Awakened too, buy by adding that long chain carrier oil, the olive oil is and it's far superior to MCT in my opinion and really anything else.

Jeff: Remind me to mention MCT oil because I've done a lot of research on it. And I think there's something I would like to share.

 

Levi: Sure, please do, and I was just going to make the point, you know, you know, not that I'm a huge fan of Epidiolex necessarily, but if you read the research papers that GW Pharma did with Epidiolex not only do they say CBDs is for better than CBD for epilepsy, but they also say that [00:51:10] long chains like sesame oil, olive oil, long chain fatty acids are far superior to medium chain triglycerides like MCT oil and others. MCT oil burns up faster in your liver, but that doesn't mean it absorbs more cannabinoids, the long chains actually deliver a much more accurate dose long-term, the effects last longer, you absorb more of them. That's my understanding and please talk about MCT.

 

Jeff: So MCT. I'm not a chemist or bio whatever you would call what analyzing MCT is, but when MCT first started showing up on the scene in cannabis formulations, like, maybe I should look into this because coconut oil, you know, it's healthy. Why is it liquid? MCT first showed up and it was called fractionated coconut oil.

 

Levi: Which is actually more accurate.

 

Jeff: But that wasn't a very sexy name. So they quickly changed the marketing and called it MCT. But I did all this Google research. Like [00:52:19] how is MCT made? Where does it come from? How is this stuff made? And I finally went to an actual MCT manufacturing plant in Malaysia and started interacting and contacting the people who are making this stuff to find out what the hell is this is why is there like a media blackout that you can't even see what this stuff is and why is it? And here is something that most people are not aware of not making this shit up, but the vast majority of MCT oil is not from coconuts, it's from palm. The shit that I know, all these people who go into Whole Foods or whatever they'll read a cookie ingredient and it says palm oil on it. They're like, "fuck that, save the orangutan I ain't that" and then they'll go guzzle MCT oil and MCT oil unless it is totally clearly stated that it's organic, coconut MCT. And that's even if you're taking the word of someone on the other side of the planet.

 

Levi: Right, some certification company too that has no accountability

 

Jeff: That doesn't really care and you can't actually analyze MCT once it's processed because there's no plant DNA in it, it is just a molecule of completely fractionated, chemically processed, fractionated molecules, but the vast majority of MCT is made from palm, the stuff that Greenpeace and every other environmental movement is saying, we need to boycott and ban that stuff because this is the most environmentally disastrous crop on the planet.

 

Levi: They're mowing down rainforests to plant palm plantations. Yeah, no, I'm with you, the environmental reason alone is enough, but there's also an absorption reason to not use MCT. MCT's often times, I've done that deep homework too and you know if you're getting steam distilled from virgin coconut MCT, okay, that's probably all right, but most of it is you know, extracted with acetone or naphtha or some solvent that they use to quickly extract the long chain fatty acids and get them out so that it stays in its liquid form. So there's probably solvents in it, it's shipped halfway around the world, you know.

 

Jeff: It's from the other side of the world.

 

Levi: It's really a cheap product that marketing has made into this health food, Keto diet thing and the industries are laughing all the way to the bank. You know.

 

Jeff: And we've seen this movie before, margarine. 

 

Levi: Right, right, yeah.

 

Jeff: Margarine by the way, now is banned in Europe because it's so unhealthy there when I grew up in the 80s . . . 

 

Levi: This is the palm oil industry rebranding margarine you're absolutely right.

 

Jeff: This is the margarine of the tropics.

 

Levi: The next time somebody says MCT oil I'm going to call it margarine oil and see what they say.

 

Jeff: It really is and it's palm and we're calling it orangutan tears, in reality you're supporting the palm industry.

 

Levi: [00:55:48] Let's compare this to olive oil. I like searching for olive oil because it's a virgin, extra virgin olive oil or raw product. Its pressed olive juice is basically from the fruit of the olive plant. You can buy California grown olive oil so your carbon footprint is exponentially less than buying coconut or MCT oil. That's one of my favorite things about it and the quality is better. Olive oil is a long-standing product. There's a better supply chain in take, there's better certification processes in take, people take olive oil seriously in California, Italy, Spain. When they say, hey, this is extra virgin, you better believe that it is and they're still fudgery in the olive oil industry. Still need to buy from really quality brands and make sure that it's not being mixed with something. There's been some kind of scheme from Italy, where they're cutting it with canola oil and stuff, but the really good olive oil is so healthy it has so many polyphenols.

 

Jeff: The polyphenols are anti-carcinogenic on their own, it's a medicine. So the oil is a medicine, then synergistically mixed with cannabis and and also historically olive oil and cannabis came on the scene with human civilization about right the same time and they've each got like 8,000, 10,000 year track record and never have they come up as any study that it's detrimental to your health always been elixirs. And yeah we came to the same conclusion. We source our olive oil from a farm in Paso Robles, we go straight to the source and this guy is like a complete geek about the olive oil, like he mills it himself and everything, and the story, and stainless steel drums, not even plastic.

 

Levi: And when you see olive oil like that, that's that fresh. I mean, most of all will you buy at the store, even if it has an expiration date or manufacturing date that's recent, it's probably pretty old if it's coming from Spain or Italy, versus when you get the fresh stuff.

 

Jeff: Oh it's gone through like ten different brokers and different chains and then been shipped overseas. 

 

Levi: Huge difference and oftentimes people try those tinctures and when they're actually full of real terpenes and whole plant and and polyphenols and all that, it burns their throat and it's alive and when you compare that to a bland MCT strawberry flavored, tincture, sometimes people go, I don't like this, you know, but the medicinal benefit of that medicine is about 10 billion times greater than the MCT, I mean obviously I'm exaggerating, but maybe not, who knows. And, you know, sometimes getting people to, it requires education, right? I mean, getting people getting people into cannabis, getting their nose into the plant, actually going to real farms and seeing the plants actually grow in nature and actually, understanding how this stuff is made, because there's such a disconnect, and [00:58:46] I just really hope that we in California here in other parts of the country can really stand up against the corporate onslaught that's coming and can maintain the Integrity of this plant as best we can. And I think the way to do it Jeff and you've been echoing this throughout this entire interview is to stay humble to let the plant lead to honor the plant to respect its history, and the ancestry that comes with this sacred practice that we're doing. And I think if we do that, as Nietzsche said, great forces will come to our aid in the plant and will guide us. I really believe that. 

 

Jeff: That's and the perspective of this is [00:59:22] a 10,000 year journey through the history of cannabis interacting with human beings. I mean probably goes beyond as far as organized civilization and the relationship work or on a ten thousand year Journey right now. So our little blip right now is a very small period in that entire movement. And if we keep that in perspective it gives strength, confidence and some clarity as to where we are as humans in this journey.

 

Levi: It's humbling. And I like to echo as often as I can on the show. I firmly believe with all my heart that cannabis is what, like the Rastas say, is going to heal the nations of the earth. It's going to bring us together. It's going to restore our soil and our atmosphere. It's going to heal our bodies naturally. Everyone loves cannabis, Republicans, Democrats and everything, you know, everyone literally loves it. We need to just get out of this draconian, repressive domination culture that wants to, you know, that's what this is all about. Is just really my perspective that maintaining power over people and literally controlling herbs and plants that can heal us is the ultimate form of control. But anyway, Jeff thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate you. Taking your time, your knowledge, your mindset, your humility is really inspiring and I just wish you the best up there, and I hope to shake your hand someday.

 

Jeff: Yeah, we're what part of planet Earth are you on?

 

Levi: I'm in Southern California. We'll say Los Angeles for brevity's sake.

 

Jeff: Okay, well very cool. Well yeah, I would love to find out more about what you're doing and just agree with every concept you started today. 

 

Levi: Likewise.

 

Jeff: So I go and I think it's not unique too, there's a lot of people, I think it's come to similar conclusions and it's not necessarily right or wrong or anything but um . . . 

 

Levi: It's just a particular approach that needs to be preserved, you know, and ignored and acknowledged. And I think it will.

 

Jeff: I think there's a hunger for that. So hopefully people who have this attitude in this narrative and its cultural aspect will kind of rise from the ashes of this first wave of venture capitalism driven cannabis. So . . . [laughs]

 

Levi: I know you're humble, but just so people know where they can find, if they want to try Jade Nectar, you're in dispensaries all over the state, right? With your tinctures and your topical.

 

Jeff: Not really. We're hyper local. We started venturing out into Southern California, a little bit, but it just became too challenging to support.

 

Levi: Big state. Yeah. 

 

Jeff: Yeah. It's a big state, and then not being able to physically be there.

 

Levi: Yeah, I know you have to be there to educate. Yeah, yeah.

 

Jeff: Exactly, so we've just kind of stayed, we're very happy for the time being at least just serving Santa Cruz, Monterey and some of the Bay Area and that's about as far as we're going as of right now. So, but who knows. 

 

Levi: I think that's a good approach for me. It's better to stay small and do it well than to try to expand and start to cut corners or have the wheels fall off.

 

Jeff: Yeah, and that's, that's exactly. Yeah. What are we? You know, all of us have to ask sometimes daily, why are we doing this? And what are we trying to accomplish? And who are we here to serve?

 

Levi: Exactly. I make sure to check in with myself on that every day and I am feeling more optimistic these days and maybe the podcast is a part of it because I keep talking to cool people like you, that kind of reinvigorate my spirit because regulation has been tough and, you know, I don't, I don't want to get too into it, but you know what I'm talking about.

 

Jeff: It sucks!

 

Levi: It's been painful. Yeah.

 

Jeff: It sucks!

 

Levi: For the small operators in particular, it's been extra painful.

 

Jeff: It's a distraction from the work we really need to be doing. 

 

Levi: It set the whole industry back from innovation and I think advancing the cause of new products, you know, quote-unquote, minor cannabinoid based products, like, the raw cannabis products have kind of had to wait, wait, you know, for their time but it is coming. Now, I know people are going to want to know, we talk so much about flowers, do you guys have any plans of releasing your landrace as jarred flower or pre rolls or anything. 

 

Jeff: Yeah, well thanks for asking and the answer is yes. In fact, last year we were actually going to try and do some of that, but we're in Santa Cruz where we had a really big fires last year, so just the quality, it wasn't crap, it wasn't toxic all the tests were clean everything was fine, but the actual terpene expression was not A plus because to three weeks of blacked out sun, just the plants didn't reach their full potential. So trying to introduce the concept of landrace.

 

Levi: You want to put your best foot forward?

 

Jeff: Exactly. We didn't want to, you know, go, hey, you guys consider some of these other ancient strains and stuff like this and by the way . . . 

 

Levi: They smell ancient. 

 

Jeff: Yeah they kind of smell like smoked ham, yeah that's what everyone wants is smoked meat flavored weed. [laughs] So they weren't, they weren't popping the way they could, but everything has to be footnoted this, but provided this year, if we don't have fire in our region, and by the way hearts, go out to the folks way up North.

 

Levi: Yeah, the Dixie fire is out of control right now. 

 

Jeff: It's so devastating and so rough and gets so sad on so many levels and we were there last year, we didn't burn, but it got scary close. So just wish all those people the best, but provided if our region doesn't get smoked out, we are planning on doing some flower, either trimmed jarred flower or at very minimum pre-rolls.

 

Levi: I can't wait to smoke it just because I need to get it, I need to mix it up. You know, the regulated market is so funny. It's like, you know, I can't even get my own products. You know, it's like you know, it's like trying to get even my own products from my distributor, you might as well go buy them from the dispensary and I've been buying a lot of store bought flowers lately and some of them are all right. I'm kind of finding, you know, some stuff that I liked, and I strongly prefer, sun ground, but it gets so dry in the little jars and that's a problem that we need to solve. I want to bring the Thai stick back or something, something that can help preserve the correct humidity, you know, of the sun. 

 

Jeff: Some of the stuff we're running this year is original Malawi genetics.

 

Levi: South Africa. Yeah, that's one of those 18, our ones you're growing?

 

Jeff: No, that's a whole different deal. We're doing some full season Malawi stuff, that actually came to Santa Cruz in the 70s, but it showed up wrapped in banana peels. So they kind of did like the Thai stick thing.

 

Levi: Have you heard of, there's a couple strains in Big Sur that are pretty legendary that have Malaw in it. Have you ever heard of Chamba?

 

Jeff: I've heard of it. 

 

Levi: Malawi Gold X Afgan, a real spacy hybrid, but sativa dominant hybrid. Like forgetting where your keys are and what planet you're on.

 

Jeff: Well this is, it's kind of a long story, but we're working with someone or just calling him Yoda right now. That is old-school 70s. He actually knew the original Haze guy RL here in Santa Cruz.

 

Levi: Is that the Bodhi seed guy?     

 

Jeff: Bodhi's totally different. He's younger, but he's tapped into a lot of . . . 

 

Levi: He's in Santa Cruz, right? 

 

Jeff: Yeah. He's into Santa Cruz. That's a whole nother thing, but who we were working with this year is just someone at some point. We'll maybe publicize this a little more but it's it's someone who long long history of cannabis cultivation since the 70s top-notch outdoor doing it old-school style but also very significant in the whole movement and activism and legalization and rooted in compassion, as far as compassion towards HIV patients and chronic cancer, terminal patients and everything like that. So beyond just growing really good cannabis, but on all points.

 

Levi: Hearts in the right place.

 

Jeff: And a whole, these almost half a century.

 

Levi: These old school people are on another level. I think you have remnants of it, I think so do I, but the real OG's that are like all about it. Like they don't care about the money. They don't care about the celebrity. They're like the real deal. They're uncorrupted, incorruptible.

 

Jeff: That's that's it. And there have been opportunities to sell out and the pharmaceutical companies come knocking and everything and you know choices are made, what's important?

 

Levi: I'm hopeful for the industry because of people like your Yoda and I know there's a bunch up north too that have kind of kept a lock on the genetics and the potential and I think they're going to kind of just slowly when the time is right start to kind of release this stuff out and let people start to play with it. [01:10:07] And I think the best is yet to come, like there are flavors of cannabis that we can't even imagine yet and the medicinal properties.

 

Jeff: It should all be open source and that's what we're doing a THCV thing. We just want to get and that's how to do it, you know, there's a push to own certain cannabinoids and patent them and FDA regulate them. And so CBD actually is, has FDA approval and technically GW owns CBD, but good luck stuffing that genie back in the bottle at this point. So that's what we're kind of hoping to assist the process, in some way of getting these cannabinoids out in the public domain. Just so they're just so ubiquitous and everybody can have access to them that it could, there shouldn't be any [01:11:04] Lords of the cannabinoids, no humans created these, they came from the universe and we all have a right to access to them.

 

Levi: And that's where the lobbying comes in I think, is we need, we need intelligent people that can speak you know, the vernacular of the legal vernacular, the political vernacular to translate that message because I think you're right, it needs to be open source for the benefit of the industry for the humanity. 

 

Jeff: Just get it out there, but also people need to revere some of these genetics and not just start, I mean they can do whatever the F they want with them, but it would be nice if they didn't just get all tangled up in Apple Fritter Muffin Gelada OG Watermelon whatever.

 

Levi: Yup, the hype strains and brands and, you know, I fall prey to that step too. I've smoked Apple Fritter from Fresh-Baked. I want to try it. It's popular. Cannabiotix, I smoke indoor stuff too because I like to keep my finger on the pulse and nine times out of ten 'm disappointed with the really flashy indoor and it's like just giving me a good sunburn. It's way more psychoactive, far more, far more psychoactive.

 

Jeff: I'm not really a snob, but I'm entitled to have an opinion, but most of the modern stuff feels more like an opiate to me like a sedative, and numbing than an actual amplifying and stimulating inspiring experience. So, but that's just me.

 

Levi: Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I think your opinion is a good one and I wish you the best of luck out there my friend and keep doing the work you're doing and super important. And thank you again for being on the show.

 

Jeff: I think this is great, absolutely what you're doing because it's so hard to communicate right now and get some of these ideas out there. So it's just really cool that you're doing this, so thank you so much.

 

Levi: All right, well have a good day. Go play some ukulele with your daughter or farm. I'm sure you're going to be back in the garden as soon as you . . . 

 

Jeff: We're actually harvesting Iranian today. Eighteen hour flowers, they are usually ready Fourth of July, we got a late start due to all the weird stuff going on, but that's a whole nother thing. Anyway, 

 

Levi: All right man. 

 

Jeff: Well hey, thank you so much.

 

Levi: Peace.

 

Jeff: Really nice meeting you, cool to meet you live here.

 

Levi: Yeah, the virtual meeting, you know.

 

Jeff: We'll be in touch. 

 

Levi: All right man, peace out. 

 

Jeff: Take care. Thanks.